You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.
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Oh right. No. I don't know what republicans want Biden to do. I'm sure there are some who would like him to do one thing and others that want him to do another.
And if you "honestly" can say that you don't think the left wing media acted dishonestly when it came to the hunter Biden laptop story in order to help Biden, then you have zero credibility when it comes to honest conversation.
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I don't know what special standard you're holding them to, but right wing media denying truths is sort of a routine thing. See: entire cottage industry denying climate change and taking in fossil lobby ad money.
The "Supercut" I saw of 'hypocrisy of the left wing media' was a series of 3-4 statements, totaling about 20 seconds of airtime, none of which lie about what was known at the time, and several of them by any reasonable standard are clearly opinions of the news personalities in question, and one even quotes an intelligence agency official (ie. not the media, ie. Trump's intelligence community):
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I'm just gonna ignore the attempted 'gotcha' with respect to Russia. If you think every single reference to a topic outside of the main topic therefore widens the frame of the main topic, good for you. IT's not how real discussions work. And its embarrassing, or at least should be, to attempt to pat yourself on the back for calling out someone's lack of historical insight when you suggested Putin is a far left dictator.
The reality I have referred to in this thread are categorically clear, Russian influence in particular and the narrative around them from right wing advocates and mouthpieces and the consequence of this influence with respect to Ukraine, Brexit, US elections and the actual practice of governance, law making and mandate setting in countries around the world over the recent years.
I've laid this out in quite a bit of detail but to give you just a few points that no one can argue are not based in reality.
The founder of GB News being identified in HoC as being a 'suspected Russian agent'. GB News specifically launching itself with an identity of being non-woke. Far right agitators and other right wing commentators saying that they admire Putin because he is non-woke. Nigel Farage who previously worked for Russia today and now works for GB News pushing a pro-Russia narrative as they currently attempt to invade and occupy a sovereign country. Pro-Brexiteer Isobel Oakeshott and boyfriend of Leave.EU co-founder Richard Tice, calling Arron Banks, another Leave.EU founder, who paid significant benefits to Nigel Farage, is an agent of Russian influence. The current scenario where Russian state media, having shut down all independent news stations in Russia, are playing clips from Fox News hosts and Republican members of congress which they are using as evidence of US support for the war. The indictments and ultimate convictions served on people closely tied with the former President of the US for not having declared they were working with Russians in the time around the last election. The words from the former National Security advisor of that President who said that if he had won re-election, he would have pulled the US out of NATO which would likely have helped Putin significantly in the actions he is attempting to carry out in Ukraine. And the links between the current Prime Minister of the UK and the fact that since 2020, there is a man sitting in the House of Lords with the official title of 'Baron Lebedev, of Hampton in the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames and of Siberia in the Russian Federation' whose father was a former KGB spy in London and is currently a pro-Kremlin oligarch. And while all of this was happening, much of the same right wing mouthpieces mentioned here were stirring up anger and telling people the real dangers were pro-nouns and gender neutral bathrooms. And within the same period that all these events have taken place, Trump was elected President of the US and was investigated for having colluded with Russian participants, one of the outcomes of which was that the investigator could not say that he hadn't broken the law. Brexit was proposed and voted on with very significant input by the Leave.EU campaign and the former employee of RT, Nigel Farage and which Boris Johnson only decided to support at the last minute. And Russia has invaded Ukraine. Not to mention the war on people specifically educated, experienced and working in the fields of medicine and science who are advocating for specific measure to limit the impact of the most deadly pandemic in all of our lifetimes and what will likely be the most impactful natural event in the time period of the human race in the consequences of climate change.
Are you saying that these points 'aren't based in anything resembling reality'? Is that your take?
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Sorry, but if the hill you are willing to stand on with respect to media dishonesty involves Rudy Giulliani holding files from a suspected laptop for a period before giving them to the FBI, then you are in no position to express judgement on my credibility.
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That's what I know to be true as well: Biden exaggerated for self aggrandizement. He boasted for a crowd, just as most anyone in politics seemingly does. Cardinal Sin?
"As we demonstrated, Biden was never in Kiev in March 2016, as many news organizations have reported. The tying of $1 billion in loan guarantees to needed reforms, including the ouster of Shokin, was a policy pursued over many months, but Biden’s explicit linkage was made during his trip to Kiev in December — three months earlier.
"Biden’s overly dramatic foreshortening of events has confused many reporters, including here at The Fact Checker. We’ve corrected our mistake, and we urge other news organizations to do so as well."
Which of Biden's dealings do you find suspect, keeping full in mind Hunter Biden is already under DOJ probe? The same outlet you're adulated with for telling you Hunter's emails are authentic is the same one also informing us that Biden has not been found to have done anything wrong, even by partisan-headed investigations:
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Nail on the head. Giuliani's credibility was already well on the way to crumbling apart because of the first impeachment, and his role as a non-government attorney-client contact between Trump and whoever else he wanted, to help emphasize to Ukraine that the military aid was contingent upon the Biden investigation announcement, and on a specific news program, date and time. Somehow Giuliani just happens upon Hunter's laptop, in a repair shop, from a blind man, in the middle of wherever the heck? That sounds like some cooked up scroty mcboogerballs stuff, and the october-surprise timing, was all incredibly suspect.
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Oh I know they do.
But it's also prevalent in left wing media. You either choose to ignore that or make excuses for them (they were speaking the truth as they knew it at the time)
I'm absolutely in a position to express judgement on your credibility. You started this thread. Then you say that you believe that the media didn't act dishonestly with the Biden laptop story.
Pretty much what you've outlined above. I find that all very suspect.
That does seems suspect. I wish we had the full story of what the hell was going on. It's a pity that those wanting to nail Biden were untrustworthy and the ones wanting to protect biden buried the truth.
But it's the rights fault.
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Yep. Clearly my mistake was not assuming that the very large number of women making their personal life experience known were in fact lying about it all and not credible. In that context, where a huge amount of women are lying for some unknown reason, I can see the posters point.
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You mean to say that you, Tell Me How, are going to ignore facts that don't suit your worldview and instead double down on your position? Wonders will never cease.
You've created a thread that is essentially a "told you so" to the world and by extension those that you perceive to be "right wing", a label which you readily apply to anyone that disagrees with you, myself included regardless of and protestations to the contrary.
You can ignore the "attempted gotcha" all you like, that's your choice and let's be frank, you make that choice regularly, the choice to appropriate things in whatever way best suits your worldview.
It's interesting that you completely ignored the fact that you were corrected on your understanding of Russian history (you suggested that post WW2 the Russian leadership didn't properly represent the "ideals of Communism") which by default suggests that Soviet Russia prior to WW2 was some sort of embodiment of Communist ideals which resulted in nothing but positive outcomes for all Russians, any cursory reading of history tells you this is not the case, but you obviously didn't bother to research that, ho hum, you may as well make a statement on it regardless of how your lack of understanding may muddy the waters of other people's understanding of the issue.
I'm afraid that beating this drum is at the crux of this entire discussion because you are creating a narrative which suggests that wrong doing has only ever been perpetrated by people on the right of the political paradigm which is an incredibly dangerous and dishonest position to take.
You can list off as many names of people who you find disagreeable (I find many of them disagreeable also as it happens) but when you are so blinkered by your own prejudice that you begin to make assumptions about all of their motivations and by extension the motivation of Russia as their supposed puppet masters you're beginning to lose the argument.
Your central point is that all the negativity in the world today is caused by right wing groups, chief amongst whom is the Russian government. Your proof that they are right wing is the fact that their actions are abhorrent and do not consider the rights of individuals. Where this is flawed is that as a central belief it assumes that wrong doing can only be committed by the right wing. It discounts the lessons of history that prove that both right and left wing extremist ideologies are equally malignant and both result in negative outcomes. It also discounts the connections the current Russian regime has to the communist era.
Ultimately the central point you put forward can be refuted by virtue of the fact that it is based on your own belief and not provable fact. The right wing as the source of all evil is your personal interpretation of the situation, however it is free not only of nuance but of respect for historical fact and therefore needs to be challenged.
The real danger that has presented itself in recent years isn't the right or left wing or "Woke" ideology, rather the universal dumbing down of political and social discourse as a whole and as someone who has positioned themselves on the bleeding edge of that movement you need to take your share of the responsibility for the outcomes we are seeing now rather than further perpetuating these untruths and grandstanding about your achievements.
Your OP stank of hubris and it hasn't gotten any better since.
Glazers Out!
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If it were "prevalent" in the LW media, so far, I have only seen the Right Wing media produce 4 clips, less than 20 seconds, demonstrating this (and it's tepid evidence)
You find it suspect, still, even after a Republican-led investigation, found no wrongdoing? Here's the Senate report, if you still find it suspect, that simply means you've yet to read the information. Hunter Biden is still being investigated. When that investigation wraps up, we will get a similar type or report from the DOJ: https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC%20-%20Finance%20Joint%20Report%202020.09.23.pdf
"Republican senators' investigation into Joe Biden and Ukraine has come up empty.
"The Senate Homeland Security Committee had been conducting an investigation into the former vice president's dealings with Ukraine, and committee chair Ron Johnson (R-Wisc.) admittedly hoped to prove Biden's "unfitness for office." But an interim report of their ongoing investigation released Wednesday doesn't do that.
"Republicans have long sought to find some kind of collusion between Biden's vice presidency and his son Hunter Biden's work at the Ukrainian energy company Burisma, seeing as Biden led Ukraine policy during the Obama administration. Attempts to dig up dirt about Biden and Ukraine sparked the impeachment inquiry into President Trump, and after that concluded with no conviction, Republicans have been trying to turn the tables on Biden.
"But as Johnson told The New York Times in the days before the report's release, the investigation found no "massive smoking guns" regarding Biden. The report relies largely on a quote from career diplomat George Kent, who said Hunter Biden's work with Burisma made things "awkward" for State Department officials focused on Ukraine. But it doesn't relay any improper influence or wrongdoing by Biden, nor does it confirm Republicans' accusations that Biden tried to oust Ukrainian prosecutor Viktor Shokin to protect his son from an investigation."
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Yeah...
This pretty much sums it up for me.
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The present Russian government is ultra nationalist supported by oligarchs and a network of elite who benefit from government contracts and corruption it's main purpose is to keep the present system in place and repress free speech So anyone who protests or criticizes the government is arrested and almost all independent media has been shut down
elections are rigged or only certain canditates can get on the ballot re social media and Facebook there are right wing grifters who are spreading conspiracy theory's fake news and misinformation and also Qanon groups who push weird conspiracy theory's that make no sense
but some people believe anyway eg 5g chips and covid theory's It's beyond satire its hard to joke about trump or his extreme right wing followers because real life is stranger or more nonsensical than anything a comedian could write
but in the online world if you get 1000s of followers you can sell merch or get paid for making a speech even if everything you say is bullshit or ridiculous or 90 per cent misinformation, fake news. The right to protest is under attack in the UK new laws about online content are being brought in eg anything that might be upsetting to children could be subject to dmca like order , eg remove this content in 24 hours. This could be used to censor news and independent reporting about war crimes almost any subject that might be controversial
oil and energy prices are rising we might be seeing 70s style inflation coming back. some goods like cpu processors chips are are caught up in supply chain chaos and delays due to the pandemic some factory's are closed due to they cannot get the electronic materials to make new cars
If Europe decides to stop importing gas or oil from russia it could result in an energy crisis or else increase the cost of all basic items across the board as factory's all have to pay high energy bills to produce goods cars and trucks require oil and petrol to transport goods
Increased costs will be passed onto consumers
Workers in America are already asking for higher wages due to the increased cost of petrol diesel
Meanwhile America has a majority right wing supreme Court which seems intent to send women's rights back to the 50s and is ready to dismantle all the epa laws which protect the environment from industrial pollution or even laws that encourage the production of green energy instead of using oil coal or gas to generate energy
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The only part worth referring to.
The real danger that has presented itself in recent years isn't the right or left wing or "Woke" ideology, rather the universal dumbing down of political and social discourse as a whole and as someone who has positioned themselves on the bleeding edge of that movement you need to take your share of the responsibility for the outcomes we are seeing now rather than further perpetuating these untruths and grandstanding about your achievements.
The history books will use Donald Trump as evidence of this and no one on the left or anywhere close to it bears responsibility for his emergence and more importantly, his continued relevance in political matters.
I'm not referring for a second about my achievements in anything but am pointing out clearly that the myriad of faux topics that have been pushed as items of concern for years have been used as a smoke screen to distract from closer analysis of the real issues. And for the record, I have never said all of the issues the world faces are because of the right, so don't misquote me on that.
P.S. Everything in the long paragraph of post #214 is provable fact, or point out to me what isn't.
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You think the far left and the left wing media have no responsibility for Donald Trump's emergence?
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Did they nominate him? Vote for him? Hand him the leadership of the GOP? Refuse to hold him accountable for an insurrection they said he was responsible for?
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Did the media give him unprecedented amount of airtime once he announced his candidacy? Did prominent left wing personalities literally beg him to run? Was he (and is he still) all the **** left wing lunatics still talk about?
Like it or not, trump was something of a Frankenstein's monster, propped up by the left wing idiots and his support was fuelled by opposition to increasingly absurd left leaning idiots.
Is he a product solely of the left? Of course not. But to say that they had no part in his emergence is another reason to discount this whole thread.
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So the media shouldn't have covered him at all? Even though he had was on the ticket and ultimately won the nominee? And then they would be called divisive, or trying to set an agenda or prevent him getting a message out.
He is still being spoken about because he is still leading the GOP and attempting to stay on the grift with his followers and will do so for the foreseeable future it looks like.
But discussing his ongoing relevance (lamentable as it is) makes people left wing idiots, or lunatics?
This reminds me of the right wing narrative about the financial collapse on 08 that it was low income peoples fault for taking out mortgages even though those mortgages were heavily marketed to those families by finance companies benefitting from deregulation brought in by a Republican President.
You're really digging deep to try to validate your desire to discount this thread. You and many more I could have listed when posting the OP. That in itself is telling me a lot. None of you have negated the argument that right wing ideologies have influenced how we have had the extended negative experience of Covid, the impact of Brexit, the war in Ukraine, the lack of meaningful action with respect to a sustainable environment etc. In fact very few have even tried.
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Where did I say that for **** sake?
The first sentence of your **** nonsensical post above underlines your ridiculous premise for this whole thread.
I never said trump shouldn't have been covered. I said he received an unprecedented amount of coverage. That's not in any way saying he shouldn't have been covered. Its me saying that because of this, it did in fact help his emergence into the political world.
You read what you want to read despite it not being said, you read into what is said and extrapolate your own version of what was meant in order for it to fit into your blinkered and biased narrative and then twist anything you don't agree with into some sort of negative and toxic comment (something something...financial collapse...something something... Republican...) in order to somehow prove your "side" to be righteous.
It's not though. It just shows you to be dishonest and incapable of honest debate.
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Did you miss the '?' at the end of the sentence?
Or is it only you and the rest who can hypothesize and I'm here to tell you exactly what you want to hear or then I'm dishonest and incapable of debate?
You wanted me to say that Trump was a product of the Left wing, sorry, I'm not going to fall in to line for you. Your reference to 'opposition to increasingly absurd left leaning idiots' is exactly the 'look over there!!!' tactic that I point out was being utilized and you're showing how well that worked. You're not the only one, far from it, which is why things are in such a mess. Well, I say 'fell for it' some people knew exactly what was happening but were on the same page for various reasons so of course they went to work pushing the same things.
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'increasingly absurd left leaning idiots'
Meanwhile, over on the right.
Yeah, we really need to be careful of those idiots on the left who want to put their pro-nouns in their social media bio.
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"Yeah, we really need to be careful of those idiots on the left who want to put their pro-nouns in their social media bio."
We can all post dumb videos.
I've heard the phrase "links to Russia" hundreds of times over the past few years yet all I see, just like you're suggesting in this thread are conspiracy theories. Something which even Vox called out back in 2017.
"President Donald Trump is about to resign as a result of the Russia scandal. Bernie Sanders and Sean Hannity are Russian agents. The Russians have paid off House Oversight Chair Jason Chaffetz to the tune of $10 million, using Trump as a go-between. Paul Ryan is a traitor for refusing to investigate Trump’s Russia ties. Libertarian heroine Ayn Rand was a secret Russian agent charged with discrediting the American conservative movement.
These are all claims you can find made on a new and growing sector of the internet that functions as a fake news bubble for liberals, something I’ve dubbed the Russiasphere. The mirror image of Breitbart and InfoWars on the right, it focuses nearly exclusively on real and imagined connections between Trump and Russia. The tone is breathless: full of unnamed intelligence sources, certainty that Trump will soon be imprisoned, and fever dream factual assertions that no reputable media outlet has managed to confirm."
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Ah yes, the 'both sides' approach. It worked before, well sort of (not really though), let's do it again.
Feel free to point out anything from post 214 that's fake.
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Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump...
We were told by the left ty at Trump was a Nazi, he wasn't. We were told he was a fascist, he wasn't. We were told he would refuse to hand back the reigns of power and America would become a dictatorship, it didn't.
The reason Trump was elected was because he successfully pandered to a huge demographic of people that the left would rather spit vitriol at and marginalize than even attempt to understand. Herein lies the problem at the heart of American politics, nobody is even slightly interested in understanding the other point of view and instead people's views just get more and more entrenched. Both sides are equally guilty of this behavior but only recognize it in the other side.
You're putting forward a notion of right wing media being dishonest and left wing media being a bastion of truth. The truth is that both are rotten to the core in their own ways.
You only chose to reply to one part of my post not surprising when it was a post that made a mockery of the central point of this thread.
You say everything in your long-winded diatribe is provable fact, I never argued that, I stated that your assumption that Russia is a right wing state wasn't based in fact.
As for you saying you're not blaming the right for all the issues of the world, I'm confused by this statement as it contradicts your thread title.
Glazers Out!
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"So are you saying that....." is not simply a question. It is an inference that I meant something else from my words. There is NOWHERE in my post that I even slightly inferred or gave an inkling that it was my opinion that the media should not have covered trump's candidacy.
The extreme arrogance of your last paragraph reads like a parody of a far left character from a television programme.
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That's the whole problem with your abomination of a thread.
You are unwilling or unable to understand that the whole problem is both sides.
You only see one side as culpable and that's the issue. Same as people who only think the left are culpable.
Two cheeks of a **** arse.
"Oh my side is not wrong and anyone who thinks otherwise is part of the problem"
Bullshit. Life doesn't work that way.
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Join Date:Posts: 71301
Guys, there's a basic expectation on this site to remain civil to one another., Please do so or you will find your posting privileges removed
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We were told by the left ty at Trump was a Nazi, he wasn't. We were told he was a fascist, he wasn't. We were told he would refuse to hand back the reigns of power and America would become a dictatorship, it didn't.
This is up there with the claim that Putin is a Left wing dictator in terms of ridiculousness. The left said that Trump aligned himself with Nazis. Which he did. Trump is fascist in mindset, but thankfully incompetent in actually succeeding in acting entirely in this manner thus far though because of those willing to ignore his literal actions, he may yet. With respect to the last sentence, were you in a coma from the period of about the 3rd of November 2020 for at least 4 months? It would explain your opinion that he wouldn't refuse to hand back the reigns of power and that you didn't see his attempts to become a dictator as he leaned on state government and election officials to try to give him what he wanted.
Herein lies the problem at the heart of American politics, nobody is even slightly interested in understanding the other point of view
Bernie Sanders went to vehemently pro-Trump areas to discuss efforts to bring in bills that would actually help people in those areas. AOC went to very-Republican Texas and gave support and assistance to those suffering from power outages. Biden is lambasted from many within his own party for being too conciliatory and open to bi-partisanship from Republicans. All these show the falseness of this ‘both sides argument’ once again when it comes to engaging with the other side.
You're putting forward a notion of right wing media being dishonest and left wing media being a bastion of truth.
The only time I mentioned Left media on here is to say that I don’t watch it on a consistent basis and have actually watched more right wing media than left out of the US if I had to guess. I haven't once claimed they are without fault, but I do maintain the impact of the actions of prominent players from media on both sides is not comparable.
You only chose to reply to one part of my post not surprising when it was a post that made a mockery of the central point of this thread.
This one made me laugh given in the very next sentence you acknowledge that you are not arguing against what I have said are significant facts pertinent to the whole thread.
As for you saying you're not blaming the right for all the issues of the world, I'm confused by this statement as it contradicts your thread title.
How confused are you to be imagining the word ‘all’ in the thread title?
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You are blaming the 'Left media' for his emergence for giving him unprecedented coverage (unprecedented by what measure?) and yet the right media contains people who literally strategized with him before and throughout his Presidency and as he incited an insurrection and not a peep from you. This is exceptional levels of selective finger pointing. Exceptional in scale, not exceptional at all with respect to being in any way surprising.
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You are unwilling or unable to understand that the whole problem is both sides.
Nonsense. With a capital N.
With that logic, every conflict, physical or otherwise could be blamed on all parties involved irrespective of their true contribution.
I've highlighted significant issues that have impacted the societies we are most familiar and involved in over the last 5-10 years. A week in, and no one has said I identified incorrect issues so we can take it that yes, those issues are impacting us negatively.
What I have said is that those issues have largely occurred because of individuals and a mindset of the right sighted political ideology as again, most of us are familiar with. And let me repeat, I have not said that every problem that exists now or has ever existed has solely been because of such thinking or individuals. Nor have I said what you have put in quotes so you can abort that strawman straight off.
The right has fed a narrative that society needs to be focused on largely non-impactful events and simultaneously they have been instrumental in bringing about the events that have turned out to be negatively impactful. And many contributors to Boards, and this thread have fallen in to line in both riling up anger about the less impactful things and deflecting from the actions of key participants who have contributed to the real dangers that exist.
Getting angry and calling this view BS won't make it disappear or change the facts I've laid out throughout the thread and specifically where your buddy arguing against me has pretty much said in their last post that they're not disputing the facts I am referring to. All it does is shows your commitment to trying to attack the left and defend the right irrespective of the evidence. You and others can target me specifically all you want, each time I read such a post, it actually makes me laugh because it is what I expect.
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The people and organisations I have referred to throughout this thread managed to convince a significant number of people that the Democrats are driven by a radical socialist/communist agenda with the likes of Bernie Sanders dictating policy. This will likely play heavily in the lead up to the elections this autumn which could likely influence the remaining time in Biden's first term significantly.
Meanwhile, this is what Sanders is actually saying.
Any of the right defenders on here want to explain what is wrong with Bernie's message and why low income workers throughout America should not listen to him?
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