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Civil Service Mileage Rate

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    These debates are often characterised by private sector "mavericks" who don't fully understand the role of the public sector in facilitating a private sector.

    They are also usually "self made" mavericks who honestly believe that it is solely their unique talents that have gotten them to where they are today.

    They say ignorance is bliss...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,950 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Must have been great to have all that free time at the State's expense to educate yourself, while the rest of us were keeping the country running, keeping essential services going. Awful shame that your education didn't help you to understand the reality of what is happening in the public service today, with people moving in and out of private sector roles all the time. Maybe you need to educate yourself a bit more?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    Yes I did put the forced and unecessary employment loss to good use. I didn't laze around scamming the taxpayer pretending to be "working from home" while on full public servant welfare, invisible from the unemployment statistics but a much greater burden to the taxpayer and adding to the national debt.

    I do understand that the government is being forced to gradually privatise/contract out many previously-public services due to waste and intransigence of the not-fit-for purpose public sector. This means the services are delivered efficiently, staff deployed where required rather than where it suits them, can be dismissed and held accountable; all of this being the antithesis of the public service.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    The public sector is facilitating the private sector-the state of the former is leading to private sector growth as services are having to be contracted out.

    I would gladly take ignorance over knowing the stark reality of how the public service works.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I didn't laze around scamming the taxpayer pretending to be "working from home" while on full public servant welfare, invisible from the unemployment statistics but a much greater burden to the taxpayer and adding to the national debt.


    This means the services are delivered efficiently, staff deployed where required rather than where it suits them, can be dismissed and held accountable; all of this being the antithesis of the public service.

    You mean pretending to be "working from home" like the way these public servants did?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/passport-office-staff-redeployed-to-covid-19-roles-1.4278845

    I find its always those who think they know the most, who shout the loudest, - that turn out to be the most utterly clueless.

    I'll put money on it that you had no problem with the private sector employers who paid their staff full wages fully subsidised by EWSS, when they had little or no work at all. Someone actually started a thread on it HERE, about how they were literally sitting on their ass at home during the pandemic and getting paid for doing nothing.

    Now personally, I don't begrudge them the money. It was an emergency situation, that is now winding down. But you can be pretty damn sure theirs wasn't the only employer who took full advantage.

    So, why don't you head over to that thread, and berate the OP for taking the money?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,950 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If it was 'forced and unnecessary', why didn't you sign up for many of the public sector roles that were recruited over that period? All too handy to be sitting on the couch on the PUP 'retraining' yourself. Was it a Springboard course you did, or what? I'm not sure why you think you get brownie points for it being 'forced and unnecessary'? That was a decision of 'the real economy' that you're so in love with, so surely you'd see that as a good thing? Do you think public servants who found themselves reallocated to a variety of different roles were 'forced and unnecessary'?

    That's pure nonsense about the Government being 'forced' to privatise. Where do you get this stuff from?

    Government has chosen to privatise some services, generally new, additional services rather than existing ones, with mixed results, and dramatic reductions in working conditions, racing to the bottom to ensure that only the privileged few have the chance to actually get a house or anything luxurious like that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    Yeah I read that article at the time. The ps propaganda machine was cranked up due to growing public disquiet over many public servants being off work on full pay. The article couldn't be more vague using terms such as "some" and "dozens". It's a circular argument about public servants being unemployed on full pay and virtually impossible to prove, which public servants know full well of course. An FOI request could be made but I doubt it would be of much use with much redaction and GDPR clauses.

    There just couldn't be an official record of publicly paid employees being off work on full pay while anyone in the private sector had to survive on the PUP-there'd be uproar which would perhaps bring about the long-overdue reform.

    As for the EWSS, I know business that profited from such state supports and while this is annoying, it's a one-off as was the €60Bn spent on propping up the financial system. Whereas public sector pay is €23Bn a year, every year and rising exponentially.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,950 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Redaction and GDPR apply to personal data, not to roles, organisations, staffing numbers, reorganisations and more. Fire ahead with your FOIs there. It will be fascinating to see the results.

    It becomes more and more obvious with every post that you have no actual information to base your nonsensical claims on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    Businesses and employers were forcibly shut by the government not themselves 😂. I know public servants exist in a cosseted bubble but surely even you must know this?

    The private sector carries out many state functions now-local development companies and agency nurses to name just two. The cost is high but not in the long run as there's no superannuation to pay, staff deployed when and where needed, services available when they're needed. In summary, public services to suit the public not the cushy lives of public servants.

    "Reductions in working conditions" = actually fulfilling the purpose of the public service (which FYI is not to pay wages)

    "Racing to the bottom" aka the market rate for the job rather than some makey-uppy time-served incremental rate 50% above the private sector equivalent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    I'm familiar with FOI requests and know how they work hence my post. As stated, there'd be no official record of public servants effectively unemployed but on full pay. The real government, senior civil servants, would never allow that to happen.

    But it doesn't matter anyway-you've got away with it as you do with everything else. The only consequence is the hardening of public cynicism towards public servants, which is most unfortunate for those that do have a work ethic in the public service. It must be soul destroying for them surrounded by ineptitude and indifference.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Public Offices were forcibly shut too, but we adapted and continued on working at home.

    But you proved my point - I was right, you're perfectly fine with the fact that private sector workers were receiving full pay at taxpayers expense for literally sitting on their asses at home, (you call it "annoying") - but when shown proof that public servants were NOT sitting at home and were, in fact, being redeployed to other roles it's "vague" and "PS propoganda".

    Such a double standard. Actually, I think hypocrisy describes it better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    I don't know what the significance or relevance of "sitting on their asses" is. And I don't know anyone who has such an animal.

    Whether public servants were sitting or lying on their couches watching boxsets while on full pay is equally infuriating.

    Vague articles are not "proof" and that article is propaganda.

    And yes, the state supporting businesses that didn't need it is annoying, but again, it was temporary and a one-off. The cost of government cars, drivers and flights et al are annoying too but all of the above are fiscally insignificant compared to the money pit that is public sector pay.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nitpicking, is that all you have left now?

    But seeing that you brought it up again, I find it interesting how you specifically targetted the Passport Office in one of your earlier rants, but didn't mention reading the article about those staff being redeployed at the time.

    Basically, you're making it up as you go along. You have no facts.

    You should put more of your time and efforts into your jobseeking. You obviously have too much time on your hands.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    Nitpicking back at you and your evocative terms and hyperbole.

    You must be confusing me with someone else-I haven't ranted once rather lamented over how the public service works or rather doesn't work.

    You really are stuck on that article aren't you. How many times do you need me to repeat my response to it? This is worse than trying to get some action from a public sector department.

    Feel free to ignore my posts. I'm sure you're earnestly working away in the PS, I wouldn't want to distract you.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Feel free to ignore my posts. I'm sure you're earnestly working away in the PS, I wouldn't want to distract you.

    Best suggestion you've made all thread.

    By the way - it's a public holiday today. But you probably didn't notice on account of the fact that you've been sitting on your ass at home - sorry, I mean "retraining" while claiming PUP for the last two years.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    can i ask a mod what this is even doing in state benefits!



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Had 2 public servants out to visit my place of work in the last week, arrived in separate cars. Is this because of Covid?

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    Separate mileage claims.

    However at least they came in two separate cars rather than one and then claiming individually.

    I've seen public servants attending conferences (during the working day on full pay, of course) 4-5 travelling in one car and each claiming mileage and meal allowances as if they'd travelled in their own vehicles.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    Oh did you think there was an obligation to reply? Most unusual for a PS employee to reply even when they are obliged to.

    I don't own an ass. Do you have a thing for the horse family?

    Public holidays are a challenge for many public servants as their productivity level is about the same as a working day. Same goes for retirement.

    And now with the added difficulty of "working from home", it's been one long public (servant) holiday since March 2020.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've seen public servants attending conferences (during the working day on full pay, of course) 4-5 travelling in one car and each claiming mileage and meal allowances as if they'd travelled in their own vehicles.

    So now public servants are not supposed to be paid for mileage or meals or their salary while attending conferences during their working day?

    But more interestingly, pray tell us all how you somehow managed to gain access to the details of these public servants personal mileage claims? Seeing as you're not a public servant yourself.

    Remember, to claim for meals, a minimum distance away from the office location must be travelled to qualify.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Did it occur to you that they could have made the journey from different starting points?

    🤔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    Most likely, why would they risk exposing themselves to covid.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I asked them the same 2 or 3 days ago, @[Deleted User] !



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    More of the same, just hot air and bluster combined with mud-slinging and no actual facts. Because you have none.

    I'm actually embarrassed for you, at this stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    Yet you keep giving credence by replying 😂.

    Is it in the employee manual to ask for proof and "facts", which by their very nature are obviously not available?

    The issues with the public service are embedded-there's no great revelations or a particular instance. The pandemic was just another opportunity to be exploited to the nth degree, which the public service does with aplomb.

    The only embarrassment warranted is the monstrous inefficiency and cost of the public service but its apologists are unabashed.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    Are you being deliberately obtuse?

    The issue is claiming individual traveling expenses despite making the journey in one vehicle; straightforward theft of public money.

    One doesn't have to work in the public service to know how it works. One could even be indirectly benefitting from it; but that still doesn't make it right, the concept of which will probably be lost on you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I asked you a direct question.

    I'll take the fact that you side-stepped it and didn't reply with your source and no explanation other than basically "you don't have to be in the public service to know" that you don't, in fact, have anything to back up your statements, and that you're full of crap.

    Have a nice evening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,950 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Or maybe it’s because they travel from different directions? If you reckon that there is something questionable going on, feel free to make a formal complaint.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,950 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    “No official records”? You haven’t spent much time with civil servants, have you?

    Good excuse for making up fairytales though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,950 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Amazing how there is apparently zero evidence of this monstrous inefficiency.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Your dead right Yorky

    Sell off the public service. Roads , parks, housing, environment, etc. Great move.

    We are paying way to much for it.

    It will be great once gone from the tax system just like Bord Gais.

    Selling that worked out great too 40% increase last week in Bill's as the state have no control.

    If you think your paying too much tax now on your PUP payment just wait til you privatise the Public service

    Again you have upskilled go in there get a job. Walk a mile in another mans shoes etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭AyeGer




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    Oh so because I don't disclose the names, addresses and employee numbers then "I'm full of crap".

    Do you expect me to list the people I have direct knowledge of in this thread and if I don't it's apocryphal?

    I have first hand experience of PS employees defrauding the taxpayer in this way, it's rife.

    But keep asking for the personal details of these people and when I fail to provide them sure I must be making it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,950 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    No one asked for personal details. Pure strawman argument, yet again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    No there aren't-public servants documenting their own sector unemployed on full pay for 18 months plus?

    That'd be like asking a car clamping company to clamp its own wheel.

    The record will give euphemisms such as "working from home" "contact tracing".

    Teachers are a prime example of "WFH" aka sending out a daily generic lesson by email yet on full pay.

    Post edited by Yorky on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭wench


    To have first hand experience, you would have to either have been the one submitting the fraudulent claim, or the manager receiving them.

    As you have never been a public servant, this doesn't apply.

    Therefore what you have is second hand experience, aka hearsay.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    Selling off the family silver is a bit harsh- putting public servants on private sector style employment contracts would more than suffice.

    Opening up the state utilities to competition was an EU competition requirement, nothing to do with "selling Bord Gais".

    The PUP is an appropriate acronym "Public servant Unemployment Payment" however there was a slight difference in this than the other (pleb) PUP in that the former were on full pay and were not counted in the unemployment statistics whereas the latter were on a time-limited banded income-related payment.

    The time and day of your reply is noteworthy-Sunday morning at 9am; if only public services were available at such times, when they're needed by the people who need them.

    But 7 day service only applies to defending ones own cosseted position, sadly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    It's not actually funny at all but it's such a lame excuse for double-claiming travelling expenses it's laughable.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    Oh what was asked for then?

    What would it take to stop you repeatedly asking for rhetorical proof/evidence?

    Are you suggesting there's a chance of you ever admitting this happens, regardless of proof? It's just standard public servant rhetorical questioning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Yorky


    Did you even read the post? I have first hand experience of PS employees defrauding the taxpayer in this way, it's rife.

    This is inane-just a series of tit for tats.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,950 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    For a start, tell us what organisations you’re talking about, what offices, what roles you’re talking about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    Did the people arrive in separate cars or not. If they were actually there then you have no idea what the reason was for two cars other than your own preconceived prejudices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭marty whelan


    I find expenses are harder to fiddle in the civil service than they were in the private sector. Where am I going wrong?



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