Garden fence dispute

nedkelly123 · 08-03-2022 6:02pm #1

Perhaps someone could give me some thoughts on this matter

i have a wooden fence at the back of my garden which boundaries the side of my neighbors house

the wooden fence is over 20 years old , (it was there before i bought the house) , its completely rotten and it needs to be replaced ...

My neighbor is saying that its my responsibility to pay for the full fence as it was the bushes in the garden that ruined the fence ...

out of goodwill i offered to pay 60% as the fence is over 20 years old but my neighbor has said that's completely unacceptable and is now sending me solicitors letters and telling me if she hurts herself on the fence ??? i will have a personal injury claim against me also ??????

thoughts ?

08-03-2022 6:23pm

Friendly neighbours usually go 50:50 on replacement fences.

Your neighbour sounds like a complete ass but also the type who might throw themselves on your fence for a pay day.

Is the fence exactly on the boundary .ie resting on concrete supports where you slot in 5X5 replacement panels or is it something different?

Wood rots so I wouldn’t be even thinking it’s your fault because of the hedges, though they may have damaged an already rotting fence further.

She can only sue you if it’s YOUR fence I would imagine. If it’s a boundary fence on exactly the boundary then it’s usually both your responsibility. While some might quote a left of your or right of your house is your responsibility rule, this isn’t inforceable is my understanding from past research.

If it’s a boundary fence personally I would put up my own fence beside it- then I wouldn’t care what happened the other one - like those green mesh metal fences or something . Or if you’re happy with your hedging then do nothing.

What did the solicitor letter say? She can threaten anything she wants but she might not get anywhere and it sounds like it’s a common fence to you both, ravished by the years and needs replacing.

You might want to check with own solicitor but really the way she’s behaving I would do nothing or simply erect something solid on my own ground - preferably as ugly a structure as possible 😀

nedkelly123 · 08-03-2022 6:32pm

Hi thanks for your reply

there is no concrete supports its basically just hammered into the ground with supports on both sides

it was there before i bought the house and she is there longer then me

the letter that i got is saying that I neglected maintainece on the fence .. and this has caused the issue ..

if that is the case . she didn't maintain her side either ..

the fence is over 20 years old and i have offered 60/40 split ..

but as you say it has been ravaged by time ..and most sane people would happily go 50/50

08-03-2022 6:50pm

Well I will become a personal expert witness for you if it ever gets to court 😛

My wooden fences on both sides of neighbours rotted beautifully over 20 years- between us all we repaired until there was no further repair possible- I used to paint my fences every year - some neighbours did too- others didn’t- to be honest if you got an extra year or two out of a painted fence you’d be doing well - they just rot and especially if not raised up on concrete.

Given the age of the fences (you wouldn’t get any more than a 5-10 year guarantee on wooden fences anyway in general unless Uber expensive) -as it’s at the end of your garden but the side of hers, it will likely trouble her more than you. Like I said you can secure the end of your garden quite cleverly especially if you have hedging - let her stew.

And also, given her perchance for solicitors letters and the like is actually be very careful what you would do to that boundary fence- you could spend 100s on a new one and she could find fault in some way and state she never ageeed to it.

She hasn’t thought this legal thing threw at all and she’s wasting money better spent on, eh, fences maybe😂

Best of luck - keep the legal letters but I don’t see you needing to do anything but that’s not legal advice mind.

The Nal · 08-03-2022 6:54pm

Pay for the fence but then do this

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/mannequin-dummy-neighbours-row-london-b985650.html

enricoh · 08-03-2022 6:55pm

Let her keep sending the letters think they're 100 quid a pop, there is videos on YouTube that'll show you cheap ways of sorting posts n use existing fence.

08-03-2022 7:18pm

I’m excited to hear how this goes over time OP- do keep us up to date in coming months- the more I think of it your 60-40 offer is more than generous- if she comes back to you I’d be reverting to 40:60 and that she must erect the fence and you’ll pay when you’re satisfied the work is in order.

It’s also very possible she intends to sell up and is hoping she can improve her property for free for the sale - I’ve seen it happen in the past

nedkelly123 · 08-03-2022 10:42pm

ill keep you all posted!

kravmaga · 08-03-2022 11:04pm

Hi OP,

If you check the deeds of your house with your solicitor you will see that its normally 50/50 split.

That said where I live I have a similar dilemma whereby the house next door to me is rented out for the past 10 years with no money spent on the house, I get on well with the folks who rent it out however the company who mange the property are useless, they dont respond to emails or calls as ive a fence which is rotten and needs to be replaced as its over 20 yrs old.

Deeds say its a 50/50 responsibility on the boundary wall/ fence etc.

09-03-2022 12:18pm

Only other thought is if it were a gated community there might be allocated fences to each household but if that were the case you’d probably know that now.

- but it doesn’t sound like it’s all your responsibility in full, given that the reason she provided for not contributing is that you didn’t maintain the fence- (which of course we know is bull given the age and materials)-which seems to indicate she’s trying to weasel out of her 50-50 responsibility- her solicitor no doubt would have checked the whole responsibility aspect before writing the letter you’d imagine?

Coddle4dinner · 09-03-2022 12:36pm

How many panels long is the fence ?

I'd just pay for it myself and get one sided panels and keep the good side.

just DIYed a 10 panel fence for around 1300e with concrete bases. All i needed was the post hold digging tools and a level.

https://centralprecast.ie/product-category/fencing-products/

NUTLEY BOY · 09-03-2022 1:26pm

My 10 cents worth...........

I would look on this as a classical boundary dispute as if the fence was actually a wall. IMHO the issue of responsibility for the fence depends on whether it is a boundary fence or a party fence.

A boundary fence sits inside or just kisses the boundary between the adjacent properties but is not on the boundary. A party fence would be one sitting on the boundary line. A boundary fence would be the entire responsibility of it's owner. A party fence should be the joint responsibility of the adjacent properties if it was erected on that basis. Putting up a fence or a wall on the boundary does not automatically make it a party wall.

The neighbour's solicitor asserts that the fence belongs to OP. She is the one required to prove that argument.

Boundary disputes are notoriously difficult to resolve. The title deeds are rarely helpful. The Property Registration Authority would have no role in this either. You might have to resort to evidence such as old photographs and the like to infer where the boundary lay.

Who erected the fence ? They would know the basis on which it was put up. OP is disadvantaged as it seems to have been put up before they came to the property. The neighbour should know full well who put it up and on what basis. My inner cynic makes me think that she knows the answer but is pulling a fast one by trying to shift responsibility to OP. If OP takes it on now that will imply liability for maintaining it. Can OP contact their predecessors in title for evidence?

Was there ever a boundary fence agreement like to a boundary wall agreement ? If so, a copy of that should be with the title documents and might even have been memorialised in the Registry of Deeds. This point is highly theoretical and is probably unlikely to apply.

A dispute like this should never go to court as outcome is uncertain and costs would be potentially high judged against likely gain.

If OP does resolve this issue with the neighbour get the basis of settlement agreed in writing i.e. agree if it a boundary or a party structure. A good set of photographs - including now - would be important if you make an agreement.

And finally, putting up a new fence inside your own boundary will probably not extinguish or estrange any liability for the old fence.

DFB-D · 09-03-2022 10:07pm

Would removing the fence be an option?

Wildly Boaring · 09-03-2022 10:25pm

There's no dealing with those who run straight to a solicitor.

Personally I'd completely ignore it.

But easier said than done.

Solicitors letters are great and all, but they mean **** all and you are under no obligation to answer or abide by them. Their flowery language and commands are worthless unless they actually go to court. And it won't because as above boundary disputes are not easily solved. If it actually did you just engage your own solicitor to deal with the case. And any useful solicitor will tell ye to get surveyors involved first.

Now if she or her solicitor produces some actual proof that it's on your land or your predecessor erected it against her wishes or some other proof then pay attention ....

Claw Hammer · 10-03-2022 12:39pm

This is all rot (no pun intended).

Look at sections 43 to 47 of the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act, 2009, Works Orders can be applied for in the District Court by either the building owner intending to carry out works to a party structure or the adjoining owner requiring the damage caused by such works to be made good

UrbanFox · 10-03-2022 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759551#Comment_118759551

It probably would in terms of removing the risk of a personal injuries action - contrived or otherwise.

The disadvantage would be that OP would then, by implication, be taking responsibility for the fence.

nedkelly123 · 22-03-2022 1:09am

so update !!

i offered to pay for 80% of a new fence and this was rebufffed..

My Neighbour said she was horrified by my offer as it was my fault my bushes destroyed the 22 year old wooden fence...

so i gave her the contact details of my solicitor..

I actually rang my solicitor and he told me the money she is going to spend in letters and fees will be more then the cost of a new fence..

whippet · 23-03-2022 10:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817025#Comment_118817025

just suck it up - the neighbour has no intention of paying a penny - so just replace it any was 80% or 100% probably not a whole pile of difference - but maybe you can paint the other side of the fence in a nice pink or fluorescent yellow colour to keep it from rotting

Furze99 · 23-03-2022 10:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118822358#Comment_118822358

This - not worth the hassle of arguing with people like that. And let any other neighbours know the story in a roundabout way.

MakersMark · 23-03-2022 11:04am

Op...ramp up for weekend bbqs all summer long! Get a party going every Saturday and enjoy yourself.

CreadanLady · 23-03-2022 11:18am

This is not about the fence. The real motivation here is your wan is on a power play trying to break you down and assert dominance over you. You offered 50/50, 60/40 and now 80/20. So she is slowly breaking you here. And if you capitulate and replace the fence at you own cost, they she will have proven her dominance on you. And then it won'd stop at the fence, the floodgates will be opened and there will be a myriad of other complaints and demands coming to your doorstep.

The woman sounds like a bully with a power complex.

If I were you, I would make a point of doing absolutely nothing, bar making sure that you, by any action you take, do not create any hazard that could potentially cause injury. I'd do nothing and let it rot into the ground until she either gives up or agrees to a 50/50 sharing of the cost.

Party structures are shared so if she were to sue you over some perceived negligence, then should would also be suing herself and would only get 50% of any award since she is jointly responsible for the fence.

If she does decide to fix the fence herself, she could seek compensation for a reasonable portion of the cost. But as we all know, you can't get blood from a stone so you could refuse to pay and, realistically, there would be little enough she could do about it bar bring you to court and get a judgement. But even judgements are notoriously difficult to collect, unless you get a an attachment order from the court. All of this would be absolutely ludicrous for a sh!tty little garden fence.

So in the mean time, let her blow money on meaningless solicitors letters - solicitors letters mean nothing. They are spoof notes with no legal standing. Might be no harm to do some digging on her and see has she proper planning permission for all her property, is there any environmental hazards or other thing that you might be able to report her to the council for to give her a taste of her own medicine.

nedkelly123 · 30-03-2022 1:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118822358#Comment_118822358

Im Not going to do anything .. its behind bushes in my garden she is the one that has to look at it every day

AnnaStezia · 31-03-2022 12:03pm

Good idea to negotiate no further. On the evidence it seems that OP has been more than reasonable. Interestingly, the neighbour seems not to have produced any evidence yet to ground her argument about ownership of the fence.

Neighbour is effectively making OP bid against himself. Her model of compromise seems to be that it is her way only. There are plenty of such unreasonable and intransigent people around these days.

BTW, is her surname Putin ?

Garden fence dispute

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