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Fuse box buzzing

  • 23-03-2022 9:53am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭


    We have a fuse box in our hotpress upstairs which is for the 2 electric showers upstairs. It started buzzing a while back. Sometimes its louder than others and you can hear it walking past the hotpress in the hall. Also noticed a small bit of suit/smoke marks or whatever on the box.

    Called an electrician to come out and have a look and he just told me that its normal, said they are usually badly designed and even if he replaced it, it would likely just start buzzing again. He said there were quieter parts you could get but they are expensive. He said it wasn't an issue. Even when I asked about the slight smoke marks he said it was fairly normal.

    Is this really the case?? The buzzing is annoying and did concern us, flicking the main switch off/on sometimes reduced the noise. But figured the smoke marks are a bad sign.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭chris_ie


    Photo of the fusebox



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Smoke marks would not be a good sign alright, I am not an electrician, but I have heard boxes buzzing when showers are operating - particularly the plastic types like you have shown. It is 50hz mains hum vibrating on the fuse box case. Just tightening or loosening a cover screw will often stop the case resonating. You will still hear a normal low hum, caused by the heavy load going through the shower circuit, but the buzz, is the fuse box case vibrating in resonance.

    The smoke marks would need to be looked at though - might just be heat dis-colouring dust, but better to get it checked. There is a natural build up of heat on parts of the fuse box (over heavy load circuits), but it should never be enough to actually smoke.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 459 ✭✭moceri


    This looks like 2 x Relay Units.. Do You have storage heating? This will Hum when the Storage Heating Circuit is activated (by a time clock).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭chris_ie


    Makes sense, if you put a bit of pressure on it the buzzing is reduced, although the screws are tight.


    We have a hot water tank, heated by oil/back boiler in stove. Flicking those switches just seems to knock off power to the 2 showers. Its not a switch per shower, either switch knocks off both. Figured the leftmost was the switch for the entire board? Which just happens to have one other switch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭Doolittle51


    Hard to see properly, but the left most module is an RCD or RCBO. Second from left is an MCB, probably overcurrent protection for the showers, if it's 32A. Or it could be a 6A MCB for the control circuit.

    Is the buzzing there constantly or only when one of the showers is in use?

    Do you have a picture of the smoke marks?

    I don't think it's permitted to install anything electrical in a hot press anymore. Could be a messy job to replace.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭chris_ie


    Buzzing is always there, even when showers are not in use. You can kind of see the smoke marks in the image in previous post. I swiped my finger across one bit, where the clean line is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭Doolittle51


    That just looks like dust to me. Is there a hole in the ceiling above the enclosure? Could be coming from the attic. If you look in the attic above the hot press, you might see similar black dust on the insulation.

    If it was caused by smoke, there would have to be a very obvious fault inside the electrical enclosure, like burnt cabling, which the electrician would have seen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Pete67


    That's a priority unit to ensure that only one shower can be used at a time to avoid overloading the incoming ESB supply cables. The two contactors on the right of the picture provide power to the two showers, but are interlocked so that only one can be energised at a time. The buzz is likely to be coming from whichever contactor is on and is fairly normal. The black marks look like dust to me, the contactors run slightly warm due to losses in the coils, which creates a convection current and deposits dust from the air as the warm air passes over the outside of the CU. Replacing the contactors would probably quiet it down for a while, alternatively if it's keeping you awake at night you could just about fit a small timer to the panel to break the control circuit at night so both contactors would be off. Neither shower would work though unless the timer is on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭meercat


    Was it a registered electrical contractor that came out


    did he remove the cover and check


    did he do any testing


    he should have issued a notice of potential hazard as it’s not permitted to mount a distribution board in the hot press



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭chris_ie


    Ok, all that makes sense. You could be right about the dust (similar to what @Doolittle51 said). There is an opening in the ceiling not far from that.


    The guy diagnosed this from a phone call and a photo 😄. Was too busy to call out, so I was going to get another electrician. I have other jobs to get done so I'll still likely get them to take a look in case.

    Whats the deal with this sort of situation? I'm assuming the buidling regs at the time did permit it to be installed in there but have changed since. Are you forced to change it if work ever needs doing on it? Similar to the time we had our chimney repaired, we had to get a new vent installed in the room with the stove as the regulations changed since it was installed, even though they only had to rebuild the chimney stack and had nothing to do in the room with the stove.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Change it for a proper one and change your electrician... its impossible to know but i suspect cheap box... electrical stuff needs to be of good quality... I expect it be changed in an hour + the unit...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭meercat


    It was never permitted to be installed in a hot press


    I think you should get a rec to call to check and test if you are concerned about burning. I don’t think a diagnosis from a picture is appropriate in this instance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    You don't know but you still recommend to swop out the unit?

    That's sound electrical advise



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    He asked for opinion and i gave mine to get a proper electrician to have a look... you are happy to give your opinion and i can exercise my right to same... Any electrician that is happy with smut marks needs to be gone and the said electrician questioned the standard or the unit...

    Seeing you seem to know everything what's your problem...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    My problem is you don't seem to know anything about electrical work yet are advising replacement



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I did not advise any such thing... i am a qualified electrician but gave no such advise... you just waffle on and on...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    That's not electrical advice... If something electrical is suspect change...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    If you just have a pumped shower you shouldn't need any of this complexity, this kit if for 'electric' shower which heat the water and have huge power demand so running two at a time would blow the main fuse.

    For a boost/pumped shower a normal switched 3amp spur for each with 30mA RCD protection at the main board would be fine, no issue running both at the same time...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭meercat


    4 posts on this thread

    what’s your electrical advice



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭Bruthal.


    I looks like you did in post 12. Change it for a proper one you said. To me it looks like dust, not smut/smoke marks, but closer inspection needed. More evidence needed anyway before suggesting swapping boards and elecricians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭Bruthal.


    Maybe something else is causing the buzzing. With no showers on, there should probably be no current flow at that board.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    The evidence is in the OP when the electrician said bad design and expensive to replace... such rubbish from tradesman which is the reason for my comments... Did the OP tell you it was dust as i think he said in his post smut or something like that...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭Bruthal.


    So you did in fact recommend changing the board, based on the OPs own diagnosis. Then talk about the standard of tradesmen giving a diagnosis without seeing the board...

    The boards consist of 2 contactors, current sensors, and mcb/RCD. What do you think the buzzing could be amongst those items that only happens in poor quality boards? And how does "smut" only occur in said boards? And how did this smut/smoke get on the front surface of the board, but little or none on the angled surface above the devices... Surely that should be black....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Stanford


    I'm delighted to see this post as I've just had a unit fitted in my house as I've installed another electric shower and it buzzed constantly over the last few days, I had my electrician back and he checked everything and could find no fault but he agreed that it was not satisfactory for it to buzz continuously. He called the manufacturer's technical rep to be told that Hager had recently changed some materials in their shower non-priority units which had caused the buzzing noise, they agreed to replace the unit with the original contact material FOC and its now on its way to my electrician. In the interim I turn it off at night until its replaced.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Hager have pretty good stuff unless it changed...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭Bruthal.


    No. There is more for you to inspect there now. Take your time now...

    We have a board that might be fine, or might not be. But you recommend changing entire board.... Then say you didn't..


    Which is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭Bruthal.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭Bruthal.


    Well he is 100 percent right about that poster.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Some of the most contradictory gibberish I've ever read on this hellhole of a site.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I at least made a contribution... your just a whinger...



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Congratulations on making your contribution. To recap that contribution, you said "change it for a proper one" about the fusebox and "change your electrician", although you also said it was "impossible to know" about what you were talking about but you "suspect cheap box". Even though it was "impossible to know".

    You said that "electrical stuff needs to be of good quality". I agree! Most people agree that "electrical stuff" really, really, really should be of good quality!

    Then you said "I expect it be changed in an hour + the unit..." at which point you trailed off and your post ended for some reason.

    Gibberish.

    Will it go on fire and incinerate his family or not?

    This is why people who worry about whether or not they have cancer can't ask for a diagnosis on boards.ie. Because the standard of information is as reliable as diarrhoea and this is about the worst I've ever seen.

    But "your just a whinger", as you say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,279 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    This thread thread is a great example on how you need to be careful on who you take advice from. Reading someone who states "they are not an electrician" argue with electricians is a good example.

    OP, Meercat in post 10 is one post to take note of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Most electricians have no idea what they're talking about either

    I'd rate myself about 50% and most are lower

    Making statements about maybe replacing everything including the electrician is just nonsense



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,095 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I'm definitely not an electrician.

    If I lived in a house and a fuse box or circuit breaker started to buzz when it didn't buzz before, and if I noticed what I thought might be smoke stains that don't simply rub off with a rub of a duster, and if my circuit breaker/fuse box was installed in a hotpress with all the associated hazards (flammable materials, high temperatures, water pipes etc) then I would get a professional electrician to come and physically check the box and get his/her professional advice. The piece of mind alone would be worth the call out fee, and if there is something wrong, it definitely needs to be fixed due to the hazards involved.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31 CantCatchCovid




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    It seems to be a regular thing installing them in the hotpress when a second instantaneous shower is added

    The convenience for the installer (probably not registered) and the aesthetics and noise for the customer , people gonna be people..

    Probably leave the 30ma protection at the main board too which isn't great .Discrimination says you should minimise unnecessary disruption



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Considering original 2.5 cables going to hotpress completely unsuitable for electric shower i cannot understand bringing all wiring for two separate showers to hotpress...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Its usually 6 or 10

    The old way of firing boards up on the ceiling wasn't that great



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭LeBash


    The reason for the buzzing is the coils of the contractors are constantly energised with the exception of when a shower is turned on and the load sensing relay switches off the other off.

    Maestroamado is kind of right in it being a "cheap board". Not the brand, Schrack is a decent brand but the way its made (and the other brands are done the same or similar).

    There is a way to make a non-priority board with different relays (the cost is 30-40% higher) that only energises the coil of a contactor during use and you dont get buzzing (maybe for the duration of the shower you'll have it).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Ya if memory serves the Non-priority boards always had a counter- intuitive method of operation

    N/C contacts on the sensing relays and N/O contacts on the main contactors , so contactors are energised normally



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    i expect you do not understand.... OP gone so i expect all ok...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭chris_ie


    😳 So, uh, just catching up here 😄

    Cheers for the info folks, looking to get another electrician, everyone seems flat out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭Bruthal.


    Yes usualy. I thought it was NC contactors in that board here for some reason when I looked before, new glasses needed. On looking again they are N/O, so energised all the time until one load relay disconnects the other one. Its done that way for failsafe anyway.

    Likely a non event overall anyway.



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