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Tenant leaving with only 21 days notice

  • 23-03-2022 3:41pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 130 ✭✭


    Hi all,

    The tenant in a rental I have is leaving and giving me 21 days notice. As they have been renting for 5+ years I should be getting 84 days notice, can I actually do anything about this?

    Post edited by L1011 on


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    The first thing I would ask is whether it is to your disadvantage, I.e. will the additional 63 days be needed to find a new tenant at a similar or higher rent? The reason I ask is that the forum is full of horror stories of over-holding tenants. One leaving early might be a curse but probably in only very limited circumstances in current conditions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,148 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    According to the RTB website, you are entitled to retain their deposit (and you could probably follow them through the RTB + court process for the remainder) although I think that you are required to make efforts to defray your losses (i.e. rent out the property) so you might not actually be entitled to compensation for the additional time in the current market.


    What happens if a Tenant fails to give the required notice period

    A tenant can give a landlord a shorter period of notice than required, if the landlord agrees to this at the time the tenant is seeking to terminate the tenancy. However, if there is no agreement reached with the landlord and the tenant leaves a rented dwelling and does not serve a notice of termination or gives inadequate notice, the landlord may be entitled to the rent for the period of the notice that should have been given. A landlord may be entitled to retain part or all of the deposit to cover this amount.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 153 ✭✭frank730


    It would be worse if they stopped paying and not leaving. Shouldn't be difficult at all finding new tenants these days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. You have had 5 years of continuous rent from a tenant who hasn't caused significant issues. You should be glad the property is coming vacant. It gives you a chance to give it a good makeover. The RTB will have every little sympathy and even taking their deposit is dodgy. The rental market is red hot. You should have no problem finding a replacement tenant and you have the opportunity to make all of the accumulated repairs and upgrades which will be necessary after 5 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭AySeeDoubleYeh


    You'll easily find someone to take their place.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 130 ✭✭Thestart


    Thanks all for advice and information. The 21 days is just a little too short for me. I’ll talk to the tenant and see what happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,833 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    Id say let them go, if they are a private tenant, don't make life difficult for you and them. If it's a council tenant, take it up with the council and get the rent from them.

    As other posters have said, they could have not paid and just moved out-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭MakersMark


    Just keep the deposit and move on.

    Tenants have all the rights in this scenario.


    Might be a good time to consider selling too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Not a lot.

    You can retain the deposit but it seems unnecessary.

    Tenants leave, you'll have no problems getting a new one probably at a higher rent. Your aim should be to re-rent as soon as possible with the least hassle as possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Yeah regulations should only apply to landlords. I suggest you try and get tradesmen lined up to do work. There is a very good reason for notice periods extending the longer you stay. The issue is the landlord now has a tight deadline to deal with whatever condition the property is in. The deposit may not even cover the damage that will certainly be there beyond wear an tear, all property has damage beyond wear and tear it is whether they repaired or not.

    OP go do an inspection now so that you can agree with them leaving early if you are happy with the condition it is in. Making them fix everything and pay for any trades if needed. If possible find out where they work just in case



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Ok lets run with your scenario,

    Say they have more damage than the deposit covers and won't (and can't) pay for it.

    Say you can't get tradesmen for 12 months.

    Say you know where they currently work.

    What will you do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Count your blessings and get out of property investment while you are ahead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭KieferFan69


    Quite malodorous question. This person has given you money for 5 years and now you want to punish over a triviality. Take a look at yourself



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭MakersMark


    Looks like the Hard Left have arrived !


    Landlords are evil, tenants are martyrs and must not be held accountable!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    The person looks to me that they would like both sides to just follow the rules of the contract.

    Contracts are no good at all when only one side has to follow the rules. Thats what we have in rentals. Contract seems to only be enforeable on one side. So whats the point of it. No wonder rental stock is diminishing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    If he keeps the deposit and the tenant complains to the RTB, In all likelihood, the RTB will order him to repay the deposit plus compensation to the tenant for late repayment of the deposit. The O/P is in business that he has to make a pragmatic business decision. Right or wrong he just has to get on with recovering possession was property and letting it again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Reverse that and tell me it is fair. Landlord has provided a service for 5 years and wants you out in 21 days, now you want to punish him over triviality? So who should be taking a look at themselves?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Why do you need to add more? It is quite petty.

    PRTB

    It is about the notice to get tradesmen being longer than 21 day and back to the legal requirement for proper notice not 12 months.

    You have a location to serve them and some employers don't like to hear about walking out on bills

    I have been through this and got paid without going to the PRTB. People will chance their arm but when they get push back they often cave.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭KieferFan69


    The landlord needs to take a long look at himself for even dreaming of punishing a long time tenant like this, no wonder the rental market is so atrocious over here, you live in Germany for a bit and you will see



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I know in Germany that two people can a gree on a contract and both will be punished for not honoring the contract they signed. Its different here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    But that is not what was asked first. If a landlord gave short notice I assume you think that is wrong?

    Why different?

    Germany where the tenants have to repaint before they leave and provide their own kitchens?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭KieferFan69


    Instead of living among the cheapest furniture from IKEA (if lucky) and damp, you are lucky to get a second set of keys if you move in here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,314 ✭✭✭Xander10


    No where has the landlord talked of punishing the tenant. You just made that up to suit yourself.

    He has only asked , what can be done if anything to secure the correct notice from the tenant, like the correct notice I'm sure a tenant would insist on if the landlord was terminating the lease.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    I am noticing you didn't answer the questions put to you, why is that?.I don't have a single piece of Ikea furniture in a rental and they are all insulated with triple glazing. Ikea furniture comes with a 10 year guarantee so I fail to see the issue anyway. Your experiences in the rental market are not reality for the entire market.

    You brought up Germany what happens there is the tenant breaks lease terms like this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Good god just let them go. What is the best scenario versus the worst.


    At best you get two months extra rent. Then it's empty and you have to spend a few weeks fixing it up and renting it again. They will prob be annoyed and not facilitate any potential tenants coming to view it while they are there.

    At worst you have a falling out, they stop paying rent and it takes you two years to get them out and you lose tens of thousands.

    Let them go, maybe even ask them to meet you half way. You will let them go early at 21 days if they agree to have it spotless and ready for some one else to walk into.

    Put up the rent to market rates and rent it out to someone new. You will have it rented in a week in this market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭DFB-D


    The German environment is pretty much the same as Ireland.

    Long enforcement periods and they cannot obtain money for a LL off someone who cannot pay.

    The grass is always greener and all that, but Germany is not a good example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Really I thought you could evict people in Germany for non payment of rent within a few months?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,148 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Not according to the RTB wesbite; the OP is fully entitled to retain their deposit (although I believe this is subject to the LL making every effort to defray their losses):

    https://www.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/deposits



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 176 ✭✭Canterelle


    In all likelihood you have received between €70,000 to €100,000 from this tenant over the past 5 years. So ok, they should give you more notice but as pointed out above all you gain from this is 2 extra months rent and disgruntled tenants. They probably have a reason for the short notice, have they told you what that is? In the current climate you can definitely have your property back earning rent within a couple of weeks - unless it is in bad condition. Check out the condition of the property and come to a reasonable agreement with your current tenants!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Irrelevant how much they paid already. If you boss decided not to pay you and said sure I paid you so much already you should be happy with that. Current climate means a shortage of trades and materials meaning more time needed to organise.

    Notice period works both way



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    On the one hand you want everyone to follow the rules to the letter. But when it suits you want to ignore them and strong arm the tenant through their employer. Double standards to be honest.

    My point was its business. Don't get distracted with stupid stuff. But thats exactly what you are advocating. You'll have to refresh a place after 5yrs anyway. Mostly likely significantly. But it will be be a tiny % of the income of the tenancy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    How is it illegal to know where to contact the tenant after they move? What is illegal of finding somebody that owes you money? I am not breaking any rules nor regulations

    Your point is how you think the landlord should treat the situation when it is not your money involved.

    I get paid and they don't get to walk away owing me money because how they view how I should look at my accounts. Really easy for you to offer other people's money up. Your double standard is that the landlord has all the restrictions and obligations but tenants get a free pass that is definitely double standards



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,656 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Big time.

    You will have a new tenant in no time and wont lose out on any rent. It may even be a good opportunity to increase the rent.


    You could have a new tenant by sunday if you posted the place today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Might be just me, but I get the feeling the OP might be using the time to figure out if its viable to stay a landlord.

    And having the tenant keep their end of the contract allows them this time to figure things out.

    They might not necessarily want a new tenant in 21 days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭KieferFan69


    I think you have it in one - they are eying the deposit



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭DFB-D


    All going well you can, as in you can issue notice after 2 months if not paying rent.

    But if they appeal.... It takes a lot longer to get a decision and longer again for enforcement.

    I think many EU countries have the same issues as in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Look at the Tribunal reports, not the puff in the FAQs. The landlord has to justify retaining the deposit. When the o/p gets before an adjudicator they will interpret the requirement to source a new tenant rigorously. They will say that any doing up was work he would have had to do anyway. It is very difficult for a landlord to justify retaining a deposit to a standard acceptable to the RTB.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    You are, because thats how data protection works.

    We know its double standards and one sided. That's why LLs are leaving. That won't change until the Govt cops on and realise LL need protection aswell as tenants.

    What you are proposing is throwing good money after bad. You also risk a hefty fine thats more than any costs you recover.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,148 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Yes, of course the LL has to justify keeping someone else's money



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Leaving early is grounds for keeping the deposit. The RTB will support that. There nothing subjective about it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The RTB will not invariably support the landlord. They expect the landlord to mitigate his loss. They do not allow a landlord make a profit on a deposit broken conditions or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    LOL

    No that is not how it works. I have a valid reason to know where the person works and if they tell me and I remember how am I illegally retaining this information.

    You really are just making stuff up. Do you think the government can prevent you remembering?

    I got paid, what do you not understand? It works I have done it, not illegal. I am not proposing anything I am saying do due diligence in the situation and with all tenants. Tenant doesn't have to tell me where they work but they do



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,232 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    No wonder the rental sector is fked when the landlords are so clueless they are coming on to Boards to find out how to do their jobs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Where they work has nothing to do with this. You're implying you can use it as leverage and also find out where they've gone. You can't. You having done it doesn't mean it was legal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    In fairness it was the tenant breaking their tenancy and forfieting their deposit that initiated this.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just give them their deposit and sell up, problem solved permanently :-)!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    You are complaining I shouldn't know where they work. If you owe somebody money and they walk up to you anywhere in public and they shout at you "YOU OWE ME MONEY" you are not breaking the law or revealing any personal information. I will trust my lawyer over your opinions of what is data protection laws.

    What do you think I will be fined? For what exactly?

    I worked on GDPR projects you clearly didn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,232 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    In fairness a landlord will have some sort of a notice agreement on a contract and should know what to do if it's broken unless they are either a complete moron or a crooked slum landlord with no paper trail.



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