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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Even without inward migration the pension age was going to be raised anyway. 30 years ago in ireland the life expectancy was circa 75 years, it is now approaching 85 years. the non contributary pension in particular is increasingly unaffordable

    edit 40 years working then an average of 20 years on a pension. Also the average 70 year old is in much better health now than the equivalent 30 years ago. Was fixing a gate with an elderly neighbour last week. The man was ripped and made short work of a concrete base, armed just with an iron pole. I can see him in his 90s quite easily. Next village over a few years ago drove by a 90 year old man known to me. He was driving fence poles with a 2 handed sledge



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The great burden isn’t age, it’s the % of population requiring assistance… so we should not be inviting the burden of multiculturalism, it’s associated social and economic negatives while we cannot maintain our benefits…for citizens, taxpayers..pension ages rising drastically as they are, proves we cannot… we are being thrown under the bus to help others… our happiness and wellbeing potentially going for a song.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I know they won't go into the DP system.

    My point is that the Dept of Justice are spearheading both and looking at DP there's zero scrutiny or enforcement measures in place. So it's worrying to think what will happen with the bogus claims we find in the 200k if the same Department does zero with the bogus claims in DP.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    How do you find there is no scrutiny or enforcement measures?



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In what way is multiculturalism a burden?

    You are assuming social and economic negatives in your own head. You do know plenty of other nationalities work in this country?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Burden relates to not individuals but the impact their arrival has on this state, it’s services and citizens…and im assuming nothing :) the ESRI are clear in their analyses and projections. Not in my head, written on paper.

    i do, I know many people here, working in various sectors where skills shortages have been prevalent in our society… they are not here to benefit, just work and contribute…and enable us to fill skills shortages in… IT, Healthcare, science, engineering and education…

    don’t take anything not earned,.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    I don't know. I'm no expert, although, from this thread there appears to be many. I see alot of fanatical they turk er Jerbs


    I'm not one for allowing anyone and their aunt come to Ireland to sit on their hole amd claim the dole, but as I've already mentioned these people aren't economic migrants, they're genuine asylum seekers that, if given a chance would be back in the Ukraine in the morning. No we can't assume the responsibility for the entire nation of Ukraine , but we're not being asked to either.

    The "look after our own brigade" can go **** off with themselves, it's the usual shite thrown out when you want to shut the door in the face on someone that desperately needs it, all while changing their profile pic on onstragram to support the next popular cause. We need to look after our own, we always will, we will have a never ending supply of them, but, you can't compare the plight of Jenny wanting her forever home Clondalkin with her 7 kids, to Magdalena from Kiev that doesn't have a home, a job, parents and a husband because hes at war.

    It's amazing how charitable people are until the arsehole comes out in them.

    We're in an emergency situation. People need help in an emergency. They're not economic migrants. Most of them would rather not be here.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not seeing whatever it is you are seeing and you seem opposed to outlining the exact issue with evidence to support your claims instead expecting me to find it for you.

    If you feel there is evidence to support your premise, by all means post it. Saying "its there, just look at this" and not showing anything concrete does not a strong argument make.

    Just to refresh, your assertion was

    A stark contrast to the asylum seekers we have had over the last 30 years who seem to be fraudulant, welfare dependent, and setting up their own ethnic enclaves, seperate to us obviously inferior Irish

    Pick any of the following and show your claim is true

    • the asylum seekers we have had over the last 30 years who seem to be fraudulant
    • the asylum seekers we have had over the last 30 years who seem to be welfare dependent
    • the asylum seekers we have had over the last 30 years who seem to be setting up their own ethnic enclaves

    Keep in mind, for the 2nd point, until very recently, while applications for asylum were being determined, it was illegal for applicants to work. I'm guessing you are aware of that so I can only assume you mean asylum seekers who have completed their applications and have been granted legal status but these folks are "welfare dependent".

    As I said, I believe your claim is untrue and you will struggle to prove it on that grounds.

    You could always admit that your claim is untrue, but I'll leave that up to you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    There will always be war, famine, natural disasters, poverty, evil dictatorships and so on…

    the UK and it’s citizens ran out of patience trying to help. So they closed the door by leaving the EU. Why ? According to them, leaving offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own border and what they can do for British people.

    in time, Ireland will be of the same understanding.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    If we took all immigrants out of Ireland who would run the health service?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Who wants to do that :) ? Simply be of the ability to control our borders :)

    run the health service ? The running of the health services is contributed to by many people.

    as now, whoever leaves, gets replaced.

    if we’ve a shortage of doctors we invite doctors and their families, physiotherapists the same… a fantastically mutually beneficial arrangement, benefits the country, it’s citizens, those arriving and families, happy days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,304 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    It’s the no limit people are concerned about. Even for education, what are they going to do when they run out of physical space for in schools, put desks on the roof. There has to be some limit as there are limited resources. I take it your one of the generous hosts taking in as many as you can in your house?



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Gets replaced with who exactly?

    This idea that immigrants are a burden on our country is absolutely and utterly beyond absurd when you consider our health service would fall apart without them. And they just simply couldnt be replaced by Irish people.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Why in your head is it only immigrants that are a "burden"?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    So, to disqualify my post you finish with that? Am I hosting them?


    Again, that's the sort of idiotic retort I'd expect from those I mentioned above in my previous post. And I've already stated what they can do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Our health services are actually falling apart as I had to find out to my cost in 2016 and since.

    Example….no funding available to run and staff the hydrotherapy pool in the Mater hospital which has been mothballed for years. I’ve still the email from the relevant department….. COST are the reasons.….

    massive waiting lists…

    a critical shortage of rehabilitative beds and services… why is each floor of each hospital not equipped with Alter-G technology…ohh again… cost, again from the head state physiotherapists lips. Can’t find the 60,000 euros per unit… the same with exoskeleton technology… up to 100,000 a device but can we get the cash for these in each hospital gym ? State rehabilitative outpatient facility ? , nope. Feck all state outpatient facilities or beds… and exo technology https://extra.ie/2019/09/16/featured/dcu-robotic-suit-wheelchair for the most part have been donated.

    but we can and do spend billions on the enablement of the welfare of those coming into the country from x location. They’ve perceived problems we lay on whatever… that money should be better spent on the tech and services for us as I’ve described, we are paying.

    You don’t help others at the cost of taxpayers here or shouldn’t but we do….it’s almost a fashion.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So how are those people a burden?

    'they are not here to benefit'?

    Really? Why would they not be here to benefit? Why would anyone come here if they didn't benefit?

    It seems you are suggesting the only people that should come here should be in some kind of servitude.......



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Because from the moment they land it’s with contributing, with getting compensated for that, filling a skills shortage by invitation.

    I’ve never mentioned the word or idea of servitude… but yourself being quite disingenuous as relates to certainty this topic on this forum it’s not surprising you would take this angle as opposed to debating reasonably.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Ukranians are here as part of a genuine emergency. When the war is finished they will go back and if some don't it our fault for not insisting.

    That Exo suit thing looks promising but the article says its developed here and we have the highest per capita in the world already. Also looks highly experimental, high maintenance and very user dependent...ie knowing ireland if freely available would be used, abused and wrecked in no time. I picture a high speed foot chase with the drunken operator fleeing the gardai and absolutely destroying the exoskeleton. Kinda like the abuse the mobility scooters get, have seen em dragged up steps, flying down the public road and even saw a video of some clown towing a car with one. Probably returned it the next day complaining how useless and broken it is



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Looks or is ? I’ve used it and worked with the team in the experimental phase…it’s no longer experimental. Results were astonishingly positive..

    used abused and wrecked ? Not in my direct experience so you are incorrect. Used in controlled, supervised, healthcare/fitness environments :) same as other healthcare fitness tech.

    As for the rest of that contribution, disingenuous I’m afraid .. so I’m out :)

    time we looked after number 1, ourselves ;) emergencies are ongoing, always will be in life and this planet… no need to compromise our wellbeing though.



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  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    that's great that it is working so well. picking well motivated candidates with discipline to work with it and then work out the gremlins.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well explain why they should not be here for their own benefit then? That's what you said.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Number 1, ourselves.

    Who exactly does this relate to?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,304 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    I’m talking about logistics, you didn’t mention that. There is no plan. We need details and figures.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I suspect a well targetted FOI request would get you the relevent plans. They well be already in the public domain, just Journalism is so poor here though.

    There must be good planning as 10 000 refugees in already and no tent cities



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,304 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Temporary accommodation in hotels but not sustainable for any extended period. Too expensive in many cases for anything longer than a few weeks and that’s only for the first arrivals.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    That's the thing though. 10k is manageable. 200k is 4% of the existing population. That's a radical demographic change by any definition. They need a plan and they need to publish it ASAP.

    What this most recent of exchanges has proven to me is that arguing the toss back-and-forth on this forum is futile. By the time people start articulating their views here, they are so entrenched that even considering another perspective is beyond the pale. We have posters advocating for no upper bounds, others who either cannot or will not acknowledge the extraordinary numbers involved, and a final cohort who are itching to scream 'xenophobe', 'classist', even 'homophobe' gets a mention.

    I have immense sympathy for people desperately fleeing Ukraine. However, we cannot and should not accept an infinite number of refugees. From a personal and perhaps selfish perspective, I worry about my wife who will give birth to our third child later this year. Will her care be compromised? Will my older children have their education disrupted in an already over-stretched system? Will an elderly relative, struggling with cognitive decline, have even more issues accessing limited services? Will my brother and sister, both of whom have young families, ever be able to secure a mortgage and a permanent home?

    A 200K population increase will impact every facet of life in this country. To deny this is either willful ignorance, or to be so well insulated, that it scarcely affects you. I suspect the latter is in play with some of the responses here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Noone said they are perfect but migrant workers keep them going so you cant blame immigrants for the poor health service. But thats you in general - something is bad so its all the fault of immigrants.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Migrant workers keep them going ? Ok, great that you’ve a more insightful experience than I did. Thanks :)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    Did Ireland not have a functioning health service before migrants arrived. All those hospitals run by nuns, staffed by Irish nurses. Seems to me it was better than it is today, it was coping just fine, thank you very much.



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