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No quitten we're whelan on to chitchat 11

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    #9962
    roosterman71
    Registered Users Posts: 5,564 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Help me out. How many units of N is in a kg of N?



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    #9963
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826738#Comment_118826738

    iF a 50kg bag of fertiliser has 10%N, as in 10 10 20, it must have 5kgN

    Or 50kg of 18 6 12 has 18%N or 9kg

    Does that make it .5kg in a unit of nitrogen, I don't know I never tried to convert it before



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    #9964
    Good loser
    Registered Users Posts: 3,199 ✭✭✭Good loser


    A kg of N does not exist in the fertilizer world. N2 is a gas and is pure nitrogen.

    Urea is 46% N. A cwt of urea has 46 units of N i.e. in 50 kgs of product. So each kg of urea has 46/50 units of N or 0.92 units.



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    #9965
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826867#Comment_118826867

    Are we both not saying the same thing

    Units are old fashioned , we refer to kgs/ha now



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    #9966
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826738#Comment_118826738

    It doesn't really work by weight but by % N for straights or other constituents for compounds iykwim.

    https://www.teagasc.ie/crops/soil--soil-fertility/fertiliser-types/nitrogen-n/



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    #9967
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,577 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826738#Comment_118826738


    Units works off the old 50kg bag. The amount of N in the bag was the number of units. Urea 46% is 46 units.

    As wrangler posted kgs is half that as 18% of 50 kgs ( as in 18-6-12) is 9kg of N. I use units as I know the area of my fields and paddocks in area.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #9968
    roosterman71
    Registered Users Posts: 5,564 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Sorry for the mad question, working on a thing for a game (Farming Simulator).

    Lets say I've a bag of 18-6-12. We'll go with the 500kg bag. And my agronomist says I need 125kg/ha of N for my crop. What is my spread rate then or how many kg of 18-6-12 do I need per ha?

    There must be some maths to convert from one to the other. I think before I seen 1kg/ha = 0.8unit/ac. That changes the area measurement and the measurement type all in one foul swoop



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    #9969
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    At 18%N the 500 kg bag has 90kgs of nitrogen.

    Years ago when we changed currency it was the people who tried to change everything back into old currency got the most confused.

    694 kgs 18 6 12 has 125kgs N in it



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    #9970
    Lime Tree Farm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    To calc kg of N in one tonne of 18:6:12 is

    18 ÷ 27.5

    So for your 500 kg of 18:6:12 it's

    (18 X 0.5) ÷ 27.5

    Approx 327 kg N in 500 kgs 18:6:12



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    #9971
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828109#Comment_118828109

    If a product is 18% N surely that's 90kgs N in 500kg........ 18% is less than 20% which is a fifth which would be 100kg in 500kg so couldn't be 327



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    #9972
    White Clover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,626 ✭✭✭White Clover


    125kg/ha is 1 bag(50kg) per acre.

    125kg/ha of 18.6.12. Is 2.5x50kg bags /ha.



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    #9973
    Lime Tree Farm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828164#Comment_118828164

    I used the Dept method of how to calculate tonnes of N, for the annual Carbon Navigator



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    #9974
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Jesus lads ye are making this hard. A unit is half a kg. 46% N in a 50kg bag of urea is 23kg or 46 units The numbers on the bags are % figures. 18 6 12 has 18%N 6%. P 12% K

    A 500kg bag has 90 kg of N or 180 units

    a small 50kg bag has 9kg of N or 18 units.

    either work in units per acre or kg per ha, that’s where the confusion starts.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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    #9975
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Rooster if you need 125 kg of N per ha using 18 6 12 divide 125 by 18. This gives you 6.944

    there is 18 kg N in ever 100 kg of 18 6 12.

    6.94 x 100 =694 kg per ha. Or divide that by 2.5 to give you 277kg per acre There is 50kg in a Small bag, so divide 277 by 50 and it’s 5.5 small bags per acre.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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    #9976
    roosterman71
    Registered Users Posts: 5,564 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Just look at all the replies there to a simple conversion question of units to kgs!

    The % route makes most sense. % = units and then kg = (units*2)



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    #9977
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,784 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Actually the problem lies with Units and % values. The old bags of fertiliser were a CWT (hundred weight) or a 112 lbs. This is where the UNITS came from. The problem is a CWT is exactly 50.8023 kgs. Now the difference is slight, but the question is - is the 18 in 18.6.12, 18% of the weight or 18 Units per every 50Kgs?

    Post edited by patsy_mccabe on

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



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    #9978
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,577 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832237#Comment_118832237

    You are slightly confusing the matter. The old unit was in CWT was different to the metric unit, it was a larger unit. It was alway 18%. The 18 is 18% it immaterial whether it was metric or CWT.

    Rooster to get a kg in a 500kg bag you divide the units by 2 and multiply by ten to get kgs in a 500kg bag

    A 500kg bag of 18-6-12 will have

    N units =18 so 18/2*10= 90 kgs N in 500kg bag

    P units=6 so 6/2*10= 30kgs P

    K units=12 so 12/2*10= 60kgs K

    In you senario wanting 125N/Ha it's

    125/90= 1.39( approx1.4) 500kg bags or 700 kgs/ HA

    To convert back to old money ( 50 kg banks) divide 700 by 2.5 so it would be 280 kgs or 5.6 50 kg bags per acre.

    The only reason you be using that amount of 18-6-12 would be on a tillage or silage crop.

    The easiest way to calculate IMO other may think different is to calculate what is in the bag first and then divide that into the amount of kgs required

    The only problem is with Urea. A pallet of urea is 1.5 ton or 375kgs/ big bag.

    In this case I calculated still as a 500 kg bag but multiply by 3 and divide by 4, (1.5T per pallet by 4 bags) there is other ways but I do not want to confuse too much. So it's,

    46%N =. 46/2*10=230 kgs per 500kgs

    Now to get kgs in a 375 kg big bag of Urea it's

    230/4*3= 172.5 kgs N per big bag of Urea.

    Hope I did not confuse you.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #9979
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832712#Comment_118832712

    I either use units or kg/ha, but wouldn't be bothered trying to convert



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    #9980
    farawaygrass
    Registered Users Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832712#Comment_118832712

    It always confuses me and i just work of units.

    but you did a great job there of explaining it, thank you! We’ll probably just get our head around kg/ha and the powers that be will start talking in different speak!



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    #9981
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,784 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832712#Comment_118832712

    So the old UNITS are different from the new Units. That's cleared up so.

    By the way, a USA CWT(Hundredweight) is 100 Lbs whereas a UK CWT is 112 Lbs. Some older guys around here, not farming, but who grew up on farms still think in CWTs. I remember telling someone recently that a neighbour sold a fine heifer that was 800kg. 'What was that in Hundredweights' he asked.

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



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    #9982
    DBK1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭DBK1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832905#Comment_118832905

    I’d be guilty myself of not using the more modern measurements, I still use inches, feet, acres and miles in all my measurements although I can switch between that and metric measurements depending on who I’m talking to. But I do have one silage customer, not that old a man, maybe mid 50’s or so, that still insists on converting factory prices into pence per lb or otherwise has no idea what price he’s getting!



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    #9983
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,577 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832759#Comment_118832759

    I know but if using kg/ HA you need to know the kgs of product (NPorK) in a bag. You then set you fertlizer spreader to that specification. It the same with units. So no what what system you use you need to do some calculations.

    I also have a fair idea of my paddock so as fertlizer goes out I have a fair idea of how accurate my spreader is. I set mine to 10 M spreading withs. I know how far a bag should go and I know if I need to tweak spreader after first bag. As well different product spreads different. A bag of Urea per acre is much the same setting as 1.2-1.3 bags 18-6-12 or 1.5 bags of granlime.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832905#Comment_118832905

    Us weights and measures system is totally different. There gallon is 3.78L or 0.84 imperial gallons. So US agri advisors will allow for this when calculating crop requirements.

    It's like tractor speeds up until a few years ago. JD and Ford's that had ''30k boxes'' could actually do a little bit with 33km/ hours. They actually had a 20 mph box that technically could do 32.2 km/ hour but could go slightly faster at maximum throttle.

    While a Renault was about 31km max. There is no discernible different between a 25 mph and a 40k box on a tractor. Since then I expect that speed boxes are standardised. A50 k box is 31 mph but a 60 k is 37 mph so I do not know what way these are set up now

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #9984
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,569 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    A4871537-3FF9-4EBD-A271-3EC28346C443.jpeg

    Not too hard to see where the tenants had the mat inside the door.

    pity they didn’t clean their shoes on the mat outside 🙄🙄



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    #9985
    dodo mommy
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭dodo mommy


    Can anyone tell me what is this growing in my field that was reseeded last September? Is it any harm to cattle I think it might be red start?

    IMG_20220325_184427.jpg
    IMG_20220325_184423.jpg




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    #9986
    Lime Tree Farm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118835799#Comment_118835799

    It looks like an old variety of kale, probably will have yellow flowers. Must have been a vegetable garden at one time.



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    #9987
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    It'll smother the grass if you don't spray it or graze it



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    #9988
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,447 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118835917#Comment_118835917

    If its kale then make sure you graze it before it flower's



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    #9989
    dodo mommy
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭dodo mommy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118836341#Comment_118836341
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118835917#Comment_118835917

    No the out side lap of the field is covered by it, it must have be in the seeder



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    #9990
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,577 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118835799#Comment_118835799

    It looks more like rape than kale. It's definately a brassica. Get in and graze it off straight away. You should strip graze them through it. They will not be mad about it for 2-3 days but will hover it up then. If there was s grass in some of the field they will eat that before this, that is why it's import to fence them into it

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #9991
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,447 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838117#Comment_118838117

    Yeah that's what it is. Happened to me once. The kale seed is so small its nearly impossible to get all of it out of a seeder but it will find its own way out eventually



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