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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If we can cover 10 million acres in monoculture forestry we can cover 10000 acres in solar



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Combining so many straw men into one post is an achievement



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    So who's going in and burning down the Great barrier reef?

    6th mass bleaching event happening right now during a La Nina. Unequivocally caused by climate change. The birdies and insects have much more to worry about in climate change than a few hedgerows being moved to make space for energy infrastructure

    Your lack of perspective is mind boggling. Climate change Is driving species to extinction today and it gets worse with every year we delay

    I await the usual 'but whatabout China' response



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Hold on though.

    Can you answer the question I’ve asked?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Import gas through our pipelines while we ramp up offshore wind and complete the interconnectors



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    All you have given us is wishful thinking. You ignore what is happening on the other side of the extension cord, the authorities in each country in Western Europe are all pursing the same central plan, thinking they can tap into the other countries to make up supply differences, while at the same time removing reserve capacity they once had. The bigger you make the grid the more expensive it becomes to manage, since electricity can only be consumed when it is generated, each nations electricity consumers must bid against other Western European countries for the available supply. Politics will enter this and in extreme weather conditions the peripheral countries will be cut off to fend for themselves.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The nonsense is the implication that it's not worth doing because the ecological cost is too high. And you do not get to pretend you care about biodiversity while advocating for more reliance on fossil fuels



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    You awake yet? We're not talking about "roof space" were taking about planned industrial scale solar farms which will cover a min of 10000 acres.

    It is estimated that Ireland will need nearly 10,000 acres of solar PV farms in order to meet its 2030 renewable energy targets.

    Many of these industrial scale solar farms are already in the acquisition and planning stages.

    Your "sure you will come back with some rubbish it aint possible" "Your so stuck... 

    Do you seriously ever read the crap you write?

    Yes I believe roof based installations are possible, and more of those projects should be in other places such as brownfield sites and other industrial locations.

    Do keep up

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Didn't say we shouldn't or couldn't. But there's a lot of brownfield sites and other locations which would have a lot less of an environmental impact.

    Or are you just going to argue to be contrary?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You consistently leave out whole elements of grid management in your rush to declare the necessary changes impossible or unrealistic

    Also market forces will cause investment to rush into industrial energy storage. We just need the fossil fuel lobbiests to get out of the way and yo ignore their demands for more and more subsidies for their increasingly unreliable and expensive products

    I can guarantee you that these changes will happen. You need to look at sources that aren't fronts for the fossil fuel industry to see that the technology exists. We have so many technologies, there's almost too many to choose from. We just need to commit yo the necessary investments and thankfully the energy crisis seems to be the wakeup call needed



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    We are at the end of the pipeline.

    Do the UK have a legal obligation to allow that gas to come to us if they are running low on gas?

    Will they risk brownouts for us?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Sorry I just have to go back to this. And let me start with something you said yourself.

    Blah blah whataboutery

    Fine that you don't want to acknowledge the damage solar farms can do to the environment and landscape here, so you've decided to jump straight into the Amazon Rainforest. That there gets you the biggest whataboutery award going. Congrats!

    And it doesn't matter if I or you "care" or don't care about habitats and trees and hedgerows. The fact is these get removed wholesale in windfarm installations. Something which is hardly acknowledged. Which is the point and not whataboutery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Nope, put them Where they can produce energy at the lowest economic and environmental cost and with the shortest lead in time.

    You're just after saying your own post about hedgerows and biodiversity was completely pointless btw



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If we pay the market rate they will sell us the gas.

    If there are a few years whee we get shafted so be it, with every newly commissioned renewable asset, our dependence on that gas gets lower.

    And our balance of trade and national wealth increases



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Wrong again. The implications is that there is significant environmental damage with industrial scale solar farms

    Can that be mitigated? Maybe. But the point is acknowledging the type of damage done to the environment and landscape in the first place. Something which is notably absent.

    And btw Im disregarding the obvious bs, I have not advocated for "more reliance on fossil fuels" btw rather that some fossil fuels will indeed be required for the period of transition to renewable energy generation and beyond



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Well in the majority of cases that would be brownfield sites imho

    And no I didn't say anything about hedgerows being pointless. And neither did I mention biodiversity. Try and get it right for once.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It's not whataboutery to point out that a small bit of degradation here and now is worth it if it prevents an enormous amount of degredation here and globally in the future

    It's like if I need to spray poison in my garden to kill everything but the reason is I need to kill the Japanese knotweed before it takes over and drives out native plants. That's not whataboutery.

    It is whataboutery to say I should be allowed to pollute because China is polluting. I should be allowed to murder my wife because putin is murdering thousands of Ukrainians



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Oh its only whataboutery when someone else does it?

    From the significant environmental damage to the Irish landscape and hedgerows and wildlife, which you failed to acknowledge - straight into the Amazon Jungle and heres you keeping a straight face lol.

    This when hedgerows and trees here are otherwise protected. That trees in Irish hedgerows make up approx 4% tree cover on the Island. That these treees are important for Co2 uptake etc. That to hedgerows make up important habitats for native Irish wildlife. But none of that is important according to you.

    Grand so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The focus is on how unreliable renewables are and the present situation as regards natural gas, which is not only our principle source of making up the shortfall of unreliable renewables, it is one of only two transitional sources recognise by the E.U.

    I think it is blindingly obvious at this point that to make up the shortfall and to transition we will require LNG, yet the Green party have a proposed Oireachtas bill pending on banning LNG, which some green supporters here believe if the Green Party does not get its way then they should collapse the government.

    To quote Dougal "That`s mad Ted". His "Cowboys Ted, a bunch of cowboys" isn`t far off the mark either for the Irish Green Party imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    What if the UK decide to not allow the gas pass through to us regardless if we pay for it?

    what happens then?

    Also can we outbid the UK for gas?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    This has been posted multiple MULTIPLE times but is ignored every time. It is also the same person asking the question and have been answered every-time yet give it a few hours and the person will be demanding the same answer



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Whats, if's, but's, maybe's. The same issue would happen with the Kerry LNG. So this proves the only way to guarantee Ireland's grid is to create our electricity using renewable



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Isn't it amazing how they find all these all remote places like Antarctica, the Arctic, coral atolls with little reliable measurement and extrapolate these doom laden conclusions. Isn't it amazing that coral has been around 400 million years (before even fish were around). Somehow the stuff has outlived the dinosaurs, amazing!

    This study, led by scientists from Lancaster University and involving an international team of researchers from the Seychelles, Australia, Canada and Mozambique, benefitted from more than 20 years of long-term monitoring data from the Seychelles, where tropical reefs were damaged by a large coral bleaching event in 1998, killing an estimated 90% of the corals.

    source

    Think of all those dedicated "researchers" toiling away year after year making "visual surveys of fish communities" in the Seychelles! Twenty years of all-expense-paid vacations under such gruelling conditions. All the while lying by failing to acknowledge corals evolved to do exactly that: bleach to protect itself. The coral scam is about nothing more than university funding schemes to go on jollies.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It`s not just a matter of us getting shafted if we pay the going rate for natural gas from those Moffat pipelines.

    It`s the fact if the Irish Green Party get their way on legislation we will not be getting any natural gas via those Moffat pipelines.

    `



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Other than the fact the question has been asked by multiple posters on multiple occasions and has still not garnered a single credible reply, can I now take it that from your thanking a post that says should import gas while we ramp up renewables means you have changed your opinion that if the Green Party do not get their way on banning LNG then they should collapse the government ?

    Or is it that you want to play pretend that no LNG will be in those pipelines!



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    You don’t answer anything.

    The gp have said they want to move away from importing gas.

    so no lng, no exploration licences, no importing gas equals brownouts.

    Thanks gp.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    But the GP are against importing gas.

    Will we be able to get the gas if there is a lack of gas in Europe?

    we are at the end of the pipeline depending on a non EU country to allow gas move on to us. What do we do if they are needing gas for their people , do you think they’ll go without for us?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    I vaguely recall an interview many many years ago on RTE television featuring two English MPs and it revolved around the topic of energy security. The nuclear topic was bought up (Sellafield) where they pointed out that objecting to nucler plants is hypocritical since Irish consumers already used nuclear generated power via the inter-connector. They also pointed out in the event of a severe Winter where gas and electricity was in short supply that Ireland is at the end of the supply line and will be cut off by political enforcement to prevent British people freezing irrespective of any contracts in place between suppliers. There was not much comeback to that if I recall.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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