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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Or maybe, just maybe the healthcare system is under pressure because of a ca. 40% population increase since the mid 1990s.

    Cause and effect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    I imagine so ,people seeking work overseas prioritise these things



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    They are fleeing from their homes being bombed ffs

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567



    We do not have the infrastructure. Infrastructure can be best described as the systems in place to structure an economy, such as personnel, buildings, equipment and processes.

    We certainly have the land mass, against our built structures. Taking a small plane or helicopter trip around the country can be quite the eye opener.

    Here’s the latest I can find about our population growth

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/bucking-the-trend-ireland-s-population-is-still-growing-relatively-strongly-1.4661464

    My argument is that we do not have the well-developed processes in place, and not a proper handle on holistic management of social provision. Ask anyone who is actually in need of housing or is in a queue of over a year to have an operation. Or someone who has recently moved but cannot get signed up to a local surgery, as they are now ‘oversubscribed’. Our housing provision, across both the public and private sector, is dysfunctional. At this moment in time, it’s probably at its most dysfunction. I think we can all agree on that.

    It’s been well documented that our housing stock grew by circa 10,000 between 2011 and 2016, according to Census 2016, although during the same period our population rose by around 170,000. So, in 5 years we got to a number not too dissimilar to what may, and I stress, may, as we don’t know the final numbers of Ukrainians expected to come to Ireland. But it could be for this year alone, the numbers of population growth in the last 5 years we have records for.

    We can put any numbers quickly in hotels although for how long – 6, 9 months, and then look to some sort of move on accommodation? It’s then we get to the great disconnect. We’ve been woeful (due to poor council enforcement of it) in managing the vacant site levy, which was put in place in January 2018, more than 4 years ago. We’ve also skipped around any proper implementation of dealing with empty properties. You don’t need to go up in the air to see that. Just take a short drive between towns and villages, they’re everywhere, and then when you get to a town or village, take a walk around. I rest my case.

    That ‘disconnect’ evolves when we look at the role of the State and its enforcers on the ground, namely the local authorities. Fine, if you think that works well, you’re not for changing your view but professionally I’ve seen enough myself to have very little confidence.

    Moving on 6-9 months, if the various sections of the State apparatus are able to accommodate the needs of up to 200k, across housing, health, and education, then many will be asking why wasn’t this undertaken at anytime over the last decade?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Cracker of a post, and I wish you’d argued that the first time, because there’s plenty of legitimate points in it, and a legitimate question at the end. The reason it hasn’t been done is purely because of self-interest over-riding all other concerns. I’m hearing a lot recently about how Sinn Fein couldn’t do any worse, and it’s looking like they might capitalise on peoples dissatisfaction with the performance of traditional political dynasties.

    My only fear is that Sinn Fein will prove those people very wrong 😂



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Sinn Fein will very probably just flood the country with people. Those arriving illegally as they are on record as saying they want to make legal.. according to out government about 17,000 are here, now, illegally . …Sinn Féin were happy to support a radical policy of handing out Irish citizenship with virtually no restrictions – a policy which 80% of voters had already rejected within recent memory.

    Sinn Fein they have demonstrated (again) that their first loyalty is not to Irish people, Ireland or it’s taxpayers…

    Creaking services like transport, housing and healthcare won’t stand a chance… with a six figure population increase…



  • Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567



    Thanks. Perhaps I should just post with a clear head after a good night's sleep rather than just before hitting the pillow.

    We have got better at planning and implementing things, the vaccine roll out went mostly to plan, but we are still behind other western democracies. As for SF, they would need at least two periods leading government to really get to grips with what is a fairly conservative, bureaucratic and rigid process of a state structure. Not impossible, but they'll need the strongest ministers and mindset to effect change. The first time in government to put those policies and actions in place, but the next 4/5 years to really see them develop. Populations though tend to be fickle, and demand a quicker fix.

    Fundamentally though, we fail at enforcement. I think it's still a hangover from the 'ah sure it'll be grand mentality' with a bit of a 'I'm all right jack' thrown in. Regulation is still also very new to Ireland. One example. The Charities Regulator has only been in existence since 2014. Another. The now much feared Revenue, has really only upped its game, and it has, since post the financial crash.

    I'd say the government are hoping it is only 50,000 or so though even that's a challenge. One better solution would be for refugee camps to be set up across the countries on Ukraine's borders (certainly not easy) and then over the next year to 18 months, families then arrive here. That's a major logistical exercise though than having 450 just turning up at Dublin airport each and every day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Where do the extra GNIB / BMU staff come from ? Trained, managed, logistically facilitated there ? My neighbour is recently retired from being a member, they are understaffed and have been for aons… do we remove Gardai off the streets.? Again impacting the wellbeing of taxpayers, tourists, visitors and everyone as is the trend.

    Garda response times in Dublin City can be up to 35 minutes



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They are Ukrainian refugees. When did they get time to apply for overseas positions when they were fleeing the war?



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    My post was within context of the people residing in DP centres



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    At no point in the history of the state has anyone ever said the line "we have enough Garda".

    It's one of those functions that we will always want more of, regardless of how many there actually are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Very much aligned to your attitudes on asylum seeking.

    Always wanting more, regardless of how many there actually are..



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The post you quoted was a piece from a Ukraine refugee



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Doesn’t exactly answer my question though does it :)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not sure it warrants an answer but I guess you could always ask the lads in the Phoenix Park at Garda HQ



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    ok, you make points but refuse to discuss… no problem :)



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What's bmu?



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭MarkEadie




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Do you see exponential population growth as a factor in increasing demand for and pressure on public services Mark?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Border management unit - google is your friend



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Saw this just now.

    So there's 30 people, 6/7 don't match the ethnicity of the region(I'm guessing the rate of non locals in Ukraine is less than 1%).

    So are we to believe from a group of 30 Ukrainians we should expect to see 20-30% from Africa?.

    But I'm sure it's all above board and the Dept of Justice has done the proper checks to make sure they were actually Ukrainian, they have a good history of applying our asylum laws to the letter of the law.

    I've watched a lot of videos from Ukraine and I've not seen one person who wasn't white but when it comes to getting to move to a Western nation suddenly the population is diverse....hmm.

    Whatever about the actual refugees, the bogus ones certainly won't be returning to Ukraine after, they're bypassing the DP process and going to put straight onto payments and no doubt there won't be any scrutiny of this process to make sure it's only the genuine cases coming in under the system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭MarkEadie


    You have no idea of the background of these non-white people but you somehow found this picture as you somehow found the video you posted from a guy who kick a dog and was caught being racist to a taxi driver for no reason.

    How much does it really annoy you when you see non white people in this kind of situation? Please go into detail as I honestly get a kick out of reading these kinds of posts. It's highly enjoyable to see the hopelessness from people who are taking issue with other people for their skin colour. There is absolutely nothing you can do about non-white Ukrainian nationals taking every benefit offered to them as they flee a warzone. I'm sure the crowd gave them all a lovely round of applause at the game. Great to see :)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If there was a humanitarian crisis in the Congo and Nigeria were taking in 200k people, and I arrive in and say I'm from the Congo, I think it stands to reason my status should be scrutinized based on the fact the chances of it being true are remote.

    The burden of proof should be "prove you're Ukrainian" and not "Prove they're not Ukrainian" when we're dealing with large numbers. Regardless of documents, with the internet now I could prove very easily I lived in Ireland if I arrived into a third country shirtless (emails, social media, pictures) it's not the 1800s.

    I have no idea of their background but I know the chances of 6 Ukrainians out of 30 being African is about as likely as winning the lotto.

    Eastern Europe is about as white as white can be. You'd hardly get 20% from the UK or US.

    It's very sad though that people like you make it into a race issue and try to paint people as being racist. Using someone's skin colour in this situation is completely justifiable, just as it would if I tried to use the ladies changing rooms in Penny's... The staff would be right to judge my gender based on appearance or if I tried to use a kids changing rooms and judging me by my age... It's called common sense.

    If we are to take in 200k refugee's, I want it to be 200k refugees and not 150k refugees and 50k bogus economic migrants.

    I think you'll find most people would agree with me and not your open door policy where the onus is on someone to prove they aren't refugees as opposed to them proving they are genuine.

    Hopefully you fall victim to some bogus applicant who slips through the cracks and see do you still have a smile on your face then when you realise it wouldn't have happened if the proper mechanisms were in place to stop then being here to begin with. 😉



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    The burden of proof should be "prove you're Ukrainian" and not "Prove they're not Ukrainian" when we're dealing with large numbers.


    The burden of proof of your claims, is on you, when you make claims which are based upon nothing more than your own prejudices. You come out with racist tripe, expect to be called racist. That’s what’s just common sense, it’s also the logical consequence of your behaviour.

    You’re the person making the accusations, that’s why the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence to support your accusations against anyone, because everyone is entitled to the presumption of innocence. Doesn’t matter how many people you think agree with you or anything else, that doesn’t make your accusations of wrongdoing against other people any more legitimate.

    It’s you who is using this situation to make it a race issue, as you’re the person who made the original claim. Nobody else turned it into a race issue, just you, and on that basis you provide plenty of evidence to support the argument that you’re a racist. It’s not anyone else who is making claims without supporting evidence.

    Your hoping that someone who disagrees with you is the victim of someone else’s behaviour is just demonstrating that not only are you racist, you’re pretty damn spiteful to boot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭MarkEadie


    You do not know anything about these people. We have to assume that they have proved that they are Ukrainian nationals and that is why they are there, as the special guests. You have no problem assuming that about the white people but not the non-whites. You are making some kind of case that the government did not assess these people as Ukrainian nationals which sounds like some kind of conspiracy theory. Where is your evidence that the government did not do it's job and process Ukrainian nationals correctly? You are the one who needs to provide proof since you are seeming to claim that there is some conspiracy theory here.

    Lets be honest, you saw some black people there and realized you could come onto boards and make some casually racist post about them being scammers because they are black and you knew you'd get away with it on here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    The taxpayers has now been hit with a €500 taxi fare to take three Palestinian ‘asylum shoppers’ in their 20's Dublin airport to Claremorris,Mayo after arriving in on a flight from Italy. These three already claimed asylum in an EU country before deciding to flee war-torn Italy. They should have been placed on the next flight back to Italy. Our system is already strained with these chancers as it is, illegals too, while we take in a massive amount of legitimate refugees from Ukraine who are in desperate need of our help and accommodation, tho I'm sure some Sinn Fein cheerleader with the Palestinian flag and their pronouns in their bio is all too delighted at this


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/taxpayers-hit-for-500-dublin-to-mayo-taxi-fare-for-three-asylum-shoppers-41491413.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Thats like. You make points but never actually discuss the points you make. You just repeat the points when others try to discuss them with you.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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