To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

If your going to keep shorten my username from Seanergy to Sean please accept me shortening your username to Ais.

You were not commenting on "my notion" of *insert your imagination here.

Maybe instead of instructing @xhomelezz to reread what you said maybe you should reread what I said.

Note emergency powers are not "temporary powers" as you have degraded them to. Emergency poswers be renewed as often as deemed fit. They are only temporary in that they need to be renewed every twelve months.

It makes sense to have the legisaltion in place so that if the need arises to blanket the population with a mask mandate or other emergency laws at short notice it can be done, with hast.

As my post said, the emergency laws expire next week and it would be reckless to allow them to.

The Government need to hold the line and not give in to pressure from the media who for some strange reason are pushing for a return to compulsory mask wearing.

Ah again with the toys out of pram. Call me whatever you want, it doesn't change the validity of the points I've raised.

Once again you're unable to provide a reason for why you think that the temporary emergency (the key really is in the name) legislation should be retained, but no, appeasing the anxieties of a minority or "just in case" is not sufficient reason to retain laws that by their nature bypass the normal governance and oversight process.

The only reasons I can ascertain from your posts are a love of authoritarian regulations and a real problem with people making their own decisions based on their own circumstances and assessment of risk.

Maybe if you actually can quantify what exactly you are concerned about at this point in our experience with Covid, there might be a discussion to be had. I don't mean another link/article dump either - what are YOU concerned about at this point?

They made a fortune from Covid related advertising and increased advertising revenue generally with all the interviews and analysis.

Plus it's a payday for the likes of McConkey and Luke O'Neill who would otherwise fade back into obscurity

The problems with our health service have existed long before Covid and if anything have been massively exposed by it. It may be convenient for the HSE to hide behind Covid as a reason to defer everything else, but given the annual investment it's not good enough (and we're now seeing the consequences of that) - and remember, the service is at "breaking point" EVERY winter as a result.

No-one has said we should ignore or forget about Covid, but nor do we need to act or be as concerned about it as we were in early 2020. Two years on the population is vaccinated, the virus itself is even less dangerous, and we have 2 years of data to tell us where our treatment efforts need to be focussed.

And yes, Covid is more infectious but infection/cases does not necessarily mean illness, or more significantly serious illness, since omicron became the dominant strain. But even before that, the facts are that most people are thankfully not at any great risk from it

But let's remember, the number in ICU is approx 50 at any one time. Additionally, 50% of those in hospital "with Covid" are those who presented for something else entirely. These are TINY numbers in a population of 5 million people, and restrictions are not a solution for that - addressing the mismanagement of the HSE and the money poured into it is the answer there.

And again.. NO ONE is saying that you can't wear masks, socially distance or do anything else you want to - you (and others) just need to stop expecting everyone else to be as concerned about Covid as you apparently still are. Anyone who wants to wear a mask will do so, but others won't and that's just as valid at this point.

You're not going to turn mask wearing into a 'virtue' for all of us, forget it. Its not like drink driving or speed limits at all. In fact mask wearing is not even in any way proven to have a meaningful impact. Its just in your opinion that it is. If you personally wanna continue to be careful and virtuous you're free to do so.

We need to go back to normal as we do now no dithering and no second thoughts. Or else we will never do it - and sorry for the drastic language - but the back-to-normal-ditherers can eff right off with that.

a) its not and b) reducing transmission is counter productive where we are. Reducing transmission was allegedly necessary while this virus was potentially able to overwhelm the health system. Reducing transmission now is counter productive. The virus is endemic and living with covid doesn't mean continued restrictions however benign you deem them to be. Living with covid means the population needs to absorb the effects of this endemic into continuously less severe cycles over time. Build real herd immunity. Reducing transmission is just treading water and will drag the backend out of it

I get it that this is an uncomfortable idea for some. I'm serious. The last two years were scary. But the answer cannot be to panic back into 'measures' every time some people are getting worried over numbers. We never knew numbers of colds or influenza either. Had we known they would likely have been astronomical.

Ah please, there's no herd immunity and you don't have a clue about how severe or less severe future variants can be. Read something yesterday about a 20% chance of a more dangerous variant emerging.

Read something yesterday about the continuum of time and there is a good chance we don't actually exist. (Not joking btw, I can send you link if you're into that sort of thing) Point is how would anyone know? I'm serious too.

And again. If that actually happened what would stop us thinking of new measures? You think a mask mandate now which allegedly may reduce transmission however minuscule would actually prevent that?

Lets not do this again. You want masks I don't lets leave it there. Not going to make a difference what you and I type here.

Again all you seem to be doing is regurgitating the opinions of others, with a bizarre tweet about spy cams thrown in?

So, again, what do YOU think...

- Would cameras like that be something you'd support? Would you not see a problem with privacy and overreach of state powers?

- Is the only reason you have for retaining the legislation the "just in case" argument? Your point about things taking time doesn't line up with decisions and changes that were made within 24 hours at various times over the last 2 years. Do you not see a problem with how this interferes with our political process and the need to have things discussed in the Dail?

- We don't have any restrictions at this point. This was recommended by even NPHET and Tony Holohan who we were all told were the experts. Personally I've disagreed with the timing and duration of their measures, but for someone like yourself who supported them, why is their recommendation now suddenly not good enough? Because you read it on twitter, or the IT (whose interest it's in to keep the coverage going)?

Oh and don't forget this one..

- What exactly are YOU so concerned about at this point that you not only want restrictions like mask wearing back and mandated, but with stricter enforcement? Do you accept that we are in a very different place with Covid than we were in March 2020?

Let's hear what YOU think

Masks have done nothing in hospitals as well.

Everyone wearing high grade masks and wearing them properly yet there are still outbreaks there.

And yet somehow the general public with reused masks, carried about in their pockets and made of whatever it is they purchased, will make a difference.

The mask is just symbolic and I always has been. I'm just glad that it is no longer lynchable to state this.

"Masks did nothing during Christmas wave"- how do you know? Did any of the restrictions that were in place do anything? How do you know?

I've already replied earlier in the thread to this canard about authoritarianism and 'power'. When you say "the only reason" what that means is the only reason you could think of. Which says a lot about where your thought processes are coming from.

Was it authoritarian to favour mask mandates here before they were introduced?

Was it authoritarian to favour mask mandates last year when they were in force?

But now suddenly it's authoritarian? Nope, doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny.

The alternative reasons are the number of cases ending up in hospital putting strain on health service trying to get through covid backlogs and staff shortages.. the infectiousness of this virus which far exceeds any other respiratory virus such a flu.

Being in favour of mask mandates is no more authoritarian than favouring smoking bans or drink/drug driving laws. It is a public space and your actions in that space are not the sole driver of the outcome. If you disagree that they are warranted right now, that's your prerogative, but shouting "authoritarianism" isn't an argument worthy of the slighest respect.