Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

27-03-2022 11:13pm

I'm a child of the 80's. How did we ever function as a society when every house didn't own a car or 2???? We were the first on our road to get a car, I've no idea how my folks managed to get the shopping home every week.

Who remembers the mini-bus back then ? Effectively a High Ace with seating for 15 to get kids to matches etc.

AndrewJRenko · 27-03-2022 11:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844738#Comment_118844738

Your mam shopped every day and carried it home. Possibly something we need to be doing more of.

27-03-2022 11:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844814#Comment_118844814

I've vivid memories of carrying a bag of shopping and my folks pulling a trolly on a Friday evening which was the only evening you could buy groceries after 6pm here in a supermarket or any shop really back then. Later into the 90's corner shops opened later before you had late night shopping 7 days a week. Ah good times!!!!!!

Duckjob · 28-03-2022 8:51am

NT on a mission to rile up the motorists this morning. Already talking on NT breakfast about DCC talking space away from motorists for cycle lanes. PK in his "what's coming" segment also going to be talking about it and saying how "Of course, Eoin Keegan is a *cyclist* himself"

bazermc · 28-03-2022 8:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845356#Comment_118845356

Well it has been at least a month since they had such a piece on

AndrewJRenko · 28-03-2022 9:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845356#Comment_118845356

I saw someone describing them on Twitter as Cartalk FM, which seems accurate.

CramCycle · 28-03-2022 9:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844652#Comment_118844652

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843550#Comment_118843550

That's the problem with the government if you go down the green route argument. If they were serious about climate change, its not so much the incentivisation of electric cars, it should have been the flat banning of petrol and diesel. Far better for the environment, if you are aren't going to push public transport, to simply stop all new fossil fuel car sales, no imports allowed, fail a roadside emission test and it is seized (no fine to get it back, just a fine and the car is gone to a repair shop to be resold at market) and start rigorously enforcing maintenance and upkeep of what is already on the road, with new cars being electric only. To state bikes are a nice luxury is cynical though. For a large number of jobs, public transport and cycling is a viable option, just there is no push to force it. I cover 290km by bike and train every day, so do several other commuters. I know people who drive 180km a day and there is a public transport option, they just don't like it. No other way to dress it up, they could park there car at the nearest station and get the train in but they'd sooner drive, which is fine but heavily subsidising this, rather than pushing them to make it a less attractive option is bizarre.

I am not even a green, it just makes sense on so many levels, and the environment is simply something that benefits from these changes. It will reduce the stress on our health system over time, it will in fact increase traffic through time in cities and towns. Time and time again, studies have shown the benefits of pedestrian and cycling infrastructure improvements to the local economy, by proxy the health service and also the environment.

Thelonious Monk · 28-03-2022 10:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845356#Comment_118845356

Good, I hope it riles the f*ck out of these kinds of motorists, sick of them and their entitlement at this stage! It looks like the Fairview thing is actually happening in Dublin which is never something I thought I'd see happen in my lifetime, no matter how riled up they get at this stage it's still being built and finally I'll be able to cycle in and out of town relatively safely.

JMcL · 28-03-2022 10:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838977#Comment_118838977

Well 23% would be a big reduction, and if that differential were to be used to widen profit margins here, there'd be a significant uptick in bikes being ordered online from other countries with 0% VAT, or that said other EU states in general regardless who would be applying the VAT rate of the country of sale, so it'd be a case of the Irish distributers cutting off their noses to spite their face

Duckjob · 28-03-2022 10:40am

PK on NewsTalk just now:

"We'll be talking about Eoin Keegans latest plan to squeeze the motorist"

Not even bothering keeping up the pretense of being objective anymore, are we Pat?

Duckjob · 28-03-2022 10:58am

Conon Faughnan on with PK now strawmanning his arse off about how we should not be blaming and demonizing motorists.

Hurrache · 28-03-2022 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843550#Comment_118843550

A "nice leisure luxury". What an absolutely bizarre take.

MojoMaker · 28-03-2022 11:17am

Old school. Fixed mindset. Out of touch. Hive mentality.

Take your pick!

Macy0161 · 28-03-2022 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846039#Comment_118846039

Once the PPT legislation is passed we're in a position that an ebike doesn't even (legally) have to be pedelec. Massive game changer in terms of accessibility in my view, if combined with infrastructure development. Family members who have zero interest in commuting by bike (or cycling at all) would be in the market if the pinch points with cars were eliminated (for example Deansgrange and Ballsbridge to the canal) and a throttle ebike was legal.

Podge_irl · 28-03-2022 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844652#Comment_118844652

Benefitting the centre of Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick and countless other towns does benefit the whole country.

It certainly benefits the whole country a lot more than the bloody M17 ever does.

Larbre34 · 28-03-2022 6:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846039#Comment_118846039

Not really.

You could go on DoneDeal and buy a reasonable second-hand bike for 150 quid in a private sale, but you could also spend €1,800 quid on a top notch light weight road bike that would do the same job, and that's what people are looking for VAT relief from. Its a luxury choice, end of story.

My wife and me both own nice road bikes and we have two cars, one EV and one 45 year old Mercedes. Yes, we did get grant relief on the Leaf because that's the Government model to replace the ICE Fleet. But I don't expect anyone to support the purchase of my old Merc, because that was an indulgence, a luxury purchase for me.

There are already sufficient incentives in place for buying a bike to use day-to-day without looking for further relief from VAT.

AndrewJRenko · 28-03-2022 7:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118848308#Comment_118848308

There are no incentives in place for buying a bike to use day-to-day, unless you’re a higher rate taxpayer in a PAYE job.

Presumably you didn’t avail of any of the tax or insurance incentives for classic or vintage cars?

CramCycle · 28-03-2022 7:48pm

Your rarely getting anything close to a functional bike for €150 on Done Deal nowadays unless its stolen. Cheap BSOs are a false economy which is fine if you can afford it, i.e. its fine for the reasonably well off. Your example of a luxury of Merc which is undoubtedly subsidized by cheap motor tax, alongside the subsidized Leaf, both if which are luxuries that only the well off can afford. Most people under a certain wage cannot afford either of these without assistance, so they get taxed for being poorer than you, be that through higher tax on their cheaper cars, higher fuel costs (vs the EV, also heavily subsidised), higher motor tax (so again, you are subsidised), and possibly other higher costs due to the need to finance once you get to a certain level of pay. The only time buying a leaf isn't heavily subsidised is before they left the EU, you could get a Gen 1 without much tax on import but you then ran the risk of the cost of battery issues if there was anything wrong.

The richer you are, the cheaper life gets as you can buy outright, buy more efficient, get less loans, pay them off quicker etc. But please, tell me how cycling is a luxury?!? Motoring is a heavily subsidised treat for the wealthy and a heavily subsidised scam for the less well off. Without a government to do something drastic though, this is unlikely to change even though such changes, while a shock, are not as difficult as people make them out to be.

magicbastarder · 28-03-2022 8:26pm

But I don't expect anyone to support the purchase of my old Merc, because that was an indulgence, a luxury purchase for me.

*rubs eyes* are you seriously comparing buying a classic car with a student buying a bike to get to school or college, or someone trying to get to a low paid job which doesn't qualify for the BTW scheme?

Large bottle small glass · 28-03-2022 9:04pm

There is no way to justify someone spending 5k on a bicycle being subsidised to close to 1k with a zero VAT rate; ditto someone buying 105 and up, above budget wheels etc.(and that before you add another 500 for the BTW Scheme)

There's a very clear and obvious benefit to society in getting more utility cycling; shopping, school run, commuting, social travel etc.

I'm not sure how you can engineer that with legislation, as to be close to impossible.

The widespread acting the boll1x with BTW scheme, be that fancy wheels, groupset, using workmates details or **** lawnmowers would make a more encompassing scheme less likely.

@Labre34 your previous posting would lead me to believe you are too smart to believe that the benefits to society end outside the canals.

Especially with the current crop of Ebikes the percentage of the population who could easily swap a car for a bike for the majority of their journeys is very significant.

magicbastarder · 28-03-2022 9:21pm

There is no way to justify someone spending 5k on a bicycle being subsidised to close to 1k with a zero VAT rate; ditto someone buying 105 and up, above budget wheels etc.(and that before you add another 500 for the BTW Scheme)

it's not a justification, but would the issue be significant enough to be worth tying the legislation up in knots?
and would it actually tie the legislation up in knots?

the electric car grant seems to be capped at a purchase price of €60k; as i mentioned above, it's run on a sliding scale - one which bears no resemblance to the actual price of electric cars - but to my mind, the grant should work in the opposite direction (and i mention this as it *kinda* ties in with your point about expensive bikes). instead of the grant (in theory) being worth more the more the car is worth, it should be the other way around. if they want to make electric cars attractive on a mass level, they should be concentrating on making the cheapest ones as cheap as possible, and not bother with making expensive ones cheaper for people who clearly can afford the more expensive cars.

TheChizler · 28-03-2022 9:48pm

Driver crashes their car into the back of another, crushes a cyclist in between. Cyclist gets the blame in the comments.

https://twitter.com/corkbeo/status/1508507280047849474?t=bYBF_on7pnGsf2z2GeHhxw&s=19

Larbre34 · 28-03-2022 9:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118848639#Comment_118848639

Nope, I'm comparing it to a MAMIL buying a Diamondback or a Bergamont, obviously.

fat bloke · 28-03-2022 10:24pm

Jeeeezusssss. I can't take this guy anymore. Respect to the lads humouring him on here for months now but I'm done. Duly ignored.

Squidgy Black · 28-03-2022 10:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118849178#Comment_118849178

Bill Badbody’s boards.ie account

28-03-2022 10:36pm

He said earlier he had a road bike, so MAMIL with a side of gammon, goes well some pineapple I hear 😊

magicbastarder · 28-03-2022 10:42pm

Larbre, seriously, put down the goalposts. you referred to any bike purchase as being a luxury last night, and are now claiming that you're only referring to high end bikes. either you're being deliberately disingenuous, or you're getting your own argument confused.

and on another note, it's rank hypocrisy if you'll happily take €5k from the government for your car and then decry the notion of a cyclist getting a couple of hundred quid off a bike to get them to work.

Hurrache · 28-03-2022 10:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118848308#Comment_118848308

As others pointed out to you, both your vehicles of choice are subsidised by tax payers, your Merc on an annual basis for as long as you tax it

People who use bike to work, which I couldn't last time I bought one due to self employment, is a once of benefit every few years.

Hurrache · 28-03-2022 11:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118849178#Comment_118849178

He's got some form of green scare, between here and the Phoenix Park thread he fears the Green Party are going to pop out from under his bed and take his car keys and roll the roads up.

Macy0161 · 29-03-2022 8:25am

Very few of the people with expensive bikes that I know got them on the btw. And the subsidy isn't the full €1000 (or €1250 as it is now). The subsidy is the tax on that amount. Not sure where you'd cap the btw anyway, speaking as someone who does commute on a btw bike, which has 105!

Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

Comments