ESB eCars

TitianGerm · 25-03-2022 10:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118836197#Comment_118836197

I know when I went to see about my EV and decided it was right for me I got an electrician out to give me a quote. At that point I'd ask if anything else needs to be done.

I'm sure it's working fine for you now but in another 12-18 months there'll be a lot more EVs on the road and with the rate we're seeing rapid charges installed the ratios are going to increase. This may effect your ability to charge reliably without ridiculous waits.

Guys here have done calculations on the cost of running an EV compared to a diesel and the savings are usually far more than €1,000/2,000 if you're doing any sort of milage. Is your daily average really short?

Either way it may not only cost you €1,000 extra a year to fast charge as you may be missing fares because you're sitting in a queue for a charger if things keep going the way they are.

It is three to four times more expensive to use a rapid charger than charging at home and I'd be very surprised if we don't see eCars and the rest pass on the cost increase of electricity in the near future so it's going to get more expensive for everyone. If you can get something installed at home as suggested above it'll save you a lot of hassle in the long run.

Dubwat · 25-03-2022 10:56pm

I don't want to disrupt this thread with my personal situation but TBH, I don't have much confidence with the electrical trade at the moment. IMHO, they only see the $$ signs with EVs. And life is short...

Ironically, my house was built in the early '70's during an oil crisis. It was designed to be 100% electric - no oil or gas. Fast forward 50 yrs... (Edit: we have ofch now). The wiring was upgraded at some point but still 10sqmm meter tails...

If the ~300 houses on my estate need upgrading at €10k/house, that's €3million in electrical fees alone. And who makes the rules?

Anyways, I'm kinda ok with external charging at the moment because I get to have a coffee and read the paper while I'm charging :)

I do worry about a year or two in the future when private EVs do start arriving in big numbers. There really is no warnings about house wiring so a lot of people could get caught out. It's the first thing I say when people ask me about my EV.

@innrain Sorry. Went off on a rant there. There's only 2 of us here and we're hitting the average 4,200kWh annual usage pre-EV. Only the washing machine could go to nights so not sure a night rate would help overall.

I think upgrading our double-glazing to modern glass is best option at the moment.

TitianGerm · 25-03-2022 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118836549#Comment_118836549

A bit off topic but I wonder could you look at Solar PV and look for a grant to cover some of the cost. Get the tails done at the same time then and hopefully the savings between diesel and using solar to reduce your ESB bill could see a much quicker payback period.

Dubwat · 25-03-2022 11:13pm

I can't/won't pay €14k on a rewire to save ~€1k/yr for the EV. I believe the ROI on solar is +5yrs or more so no thanks atm...

I think upgrading my house windows (~€20k?) Is my best next option/priority. The houses in my estate are generally ber-rated at D.

Dubwat · 25-03-2022 11:13pm

Dubwat · 25-03-2022 11:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118836477#Comment_118836477

Sorry, I missed your post as I'm doing this on my phone. There is no typical taxi mileage anymore. Some are 100% apps and some are 100% rank-based and most are somewhere in the middle.

Work to live, don't live to work!

I do about 150km/day or less. My MG5 long range has a real life range of c300km. But keeping the battery in the 20-80% zone means a 1.5 days usage for me.

Drivers sit on ranks for 30mins or more before they get a job so why not charge + coffee for 30 mins?

Re granny chargers, I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be sleeping with it charging. What if the electricians are right and my house wiring is dodgy?

Actually I took the past few days off and used the granny charger daytime as an experiment. It took 22 hrs spread over 3 days to go from 35% to 100% (and balance the battery) for roughly €9.50. The plug never got hot after ~5hrs usage each session.

oscarBravo · 26-03-2022 8:57pm

Re granny chargers, I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be sleeping with it charging. What if the electricians are right and my house wiring is dodgy?

Actually I took the past few days off and used the granny charger daytime as an experiment. It took 22 hrs spread over 3 days to go from 35% to 100% (and balance the battery) for roughly €9.50. The plug never got hot after ~5hrs usage each session.

My granny charger is set to (I think) 6 amps. I'd be horrified if a plug got hot drawing that sort of current, it's less than half the fuse rating.

cannco253 · 27-03-2022 6:09pm

Maybe someone should send this to ecars - are the quays painted yet? 😉

https://twitter.com/WillFealey/status/1506991487166423048?s=20&t=uHNKpf_A5aQPliKtYghqLQ

mfceiling · 27-03-2022 10:40pm

I presume they are not painted yet?

Only asking because I checked my emails and I got a reply from ESB on January 14th this year to say they were being painted the following week.

liamog · 28-03-2022 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844597#Comment_118844597

Unfortunately every time Anna checks her calendar she finds that next week is still 7 days away.

Old diesel · 28-03-2022 2:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118835973#Comment_118835973

My thinking would be more.....

Is Dubwat getting on okay with 100 percent public charging his taxi....

If yes that's good news for EVs in that they can work as usable vehicles.

If no then we seek to understand the issues for the benefit of all present and future EV drivers.

His situation is a good test in terms of identifying what's needed for a better network.

Like what works for a busy on the road all day driver

Dubwat · 28-03-2022 6:31pm

I have my MG5 long range taxi almost 5 months now and use ~40% of the battery per day. I'm pretty much ok with public charging at the moment. I don't work a 9-5 so I can be flexible when and where I rapid charge.

I don't know what the answer is for working EVs and public charging. The council is pretty hostile to cars of all descriptions and has already admitted their incompetence in managing EV charging stations. I don't see how a charger on a taxi rank would work either because an ICE taxi would have no compunction in parking there and telling you to F.off! There was a suggestion floated back when (I believe) Paschal Donohoe was Transport Minister to move taxi ranks off-street into car parks but again I don't see how that would work. Best bet would probably be to see what other countries have done and just copy the best ideas. They're usually 5-10 years ahead of us.

However, I do worry what will happen in 2023 and beyond when EV deliveries of all sorts start ramping up. I believe there's already a bit of a backlog in getting a home charger installed for the general public. The NTA grant-funded ~700 EV taxis last year, and they have the money to do another ~700 EV taxis this year and next. So ~2,000 EV taxis floating around by 2025 - how many will have a driveway (home charging) and how many will need a top-up during their shift?

zg3409 · 29-03-2022 10:02am

In terms of Sandyford being busy try Lidl south Bray (50kW pay charger) with nearby esb Tesco bray 50kW charger. Both tend to be quieter than Sandyford which is crazy busy. Similarly for north Dublin avoid all the common busy chargers and look to easygo 50kW at DCU. I tend to check if the charger is in use and then skip on by.

In plugshare app you can say you are charging and you can say you are waiting for charger to free up but it's not used by that many. If the esb app had a similar feature then it would be good. If charger is in use you can press esb app bell 🔔

I see the icon on busy AC chargers, but it does not seem to come up on partly busy ccs chargers. It may only be an option when every connector is in use which is wrong. It definitely works ok on ac chargers.

wassie · 29-03-2022 11:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118848256#Comment_118848256

I don't know what the answer is for working EVs and public charging

The answer is look at what the EU & UK are doing. We dont need to reinvent the wheel. Just need Govt to step up here and provide a real policy solution.

I posted this in another thread - UK Govt has announces plans to do just that.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tenfold-expansion-in-chargepoints-by-2030-as-government-drives-ev-revolution

Covers three key areas

1) Increasing funding significantly for building new charging infrastructure

2) Strategic planning to deal with challenges of rolling out new charging infrastructure

3) Improved customer experience - enabling easy, uniform payment methods (eg contactless card payments) and real time data to feed into apps to readily locate available chargers.

wassie · 29-03-2022 11:16am

With EV car sales increasing, we are going to hit a tipping point very soon in this country if the Govt doesnt start taking serious action this year.

This summer will prove interesting as more people start moving around the country for holiday season. I can see alot of frustrated families spending more time than they anticipated at mortorway services....

ELM327 · 29-03-2022 12:29pm

We've already hit the tipping point.

I avoid the single point of failure chargers. Currently we only have herself's Ioniq28 and are doing a lot of driving (so a lot of fast charging). There's been queues at the "hubs" with 50+150 chargers. I have even seen a full 5 stall Gorey Services. There's a marked change from even last year.

And I remember back to 2016 when if you even saw another EV it was noteworthy.

sh81722 · 29-03-2022 12:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118851046#Comment_118851046

Yes, the current network was great until about 2017, then again for a short while post charging for charging. In 2021 the number of EVs doubled and early 2022 show that the number is easily going to double again in 2022. Now it's just in an ever increasing misery for us until the current stau with the substation planning permissions/deployments is solved.

rocketspocket · 29-03-2022 1:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118851089#Comment_118851089

We've got caught out a few times in the last month (J14) that meant that i had to wait for around 20-60 minutes before able to charge. wouldn't mind if i was out for a sunday drive but i've 2 babies under 1 year and i can't risk it so i've been toying going back to an ICE for a few years until the network matures- i'll happily pay whatever the difference is in Petrol costs if it means that i'm not sitting having to justify to the wife why we are driving an EV while we have 2 screaming babies in the back.

kanuseeme · 29-03-2022 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118851222#Comment_118851222

Get a phev, charge when ever you want.

Dubwat · 29-03-2022 3:45pm

This is a 'don't shoot the messenger' post :)

I had an engineer from ESB International (not ESBN) in my taxi today and we chatted about EV's a bit. He said ESB Networks is reliant on funding from the Energy Regulator and they can't just raise their own money and roll out EV charging stations. In other words, the Energy Regulator is the bottleneck, not ESBN? Don't know if that's true or not?

AndyBoBandy · 29-03-2022 4:00pm

ESBN don't install chargers though, it's ESB eCars

eCars simply pay ESBN for grid connections at sites where ESB eCars install chargers, and they pay handsomely....

liamog · 29-03-2022 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118852117#Comment_118852117

ESBN is "self funding" general idea is that all costs for new connections are borne by the entity requiring the connection and then the standing charges pay for ongoing maintenance of the network. The energy regulator controls the level of allowed standing charge.

the_amazing_raisin · 29-03-2022 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118852209#Comment_118852209

True, and the regulator needs to sign off on any increases to grid charges

There are grid upgrades needed for EV charging. On paper there's enough capacity, but it needs to be brought to the right locations for charging hubs, many of which are in somewhat remote locations.

If you're bringing a 1MW connection out to a service station somewhere on the MR, there aren't exactly a large number of other customers out there to share the cost of that infrastructure. This is why very often you seen Tesla and another charging hub in the same site, so they can split the grid connection costs

In the end, it comes down to "who pays". The charging companies don't want to pay a lot of money for high powered connections unless they're guaranteed a lot of usage. The government doesn't want to pay for them because that would be socialism or something like that. And the consumer doesn't want to pay for them because energy is already expensive here

Incidentally, I saw an article on bonkers that said when taxation is removed energy costs in Ireland are almost 50% higher than other European countries. This is an indicator that grid costs here are a lot higher, I think that's something worth looking into

AndyBoBandy · 29-03-2022 5:07pm

^ and probably why so few big players are interested in setting up here in the first place!!!!

Tesla have to do it on the basis that they sell cars here, so they can take the hit on standing charges for large grid connections. I'm sure they'd love to share those costs, but there's just no one to charge then with...

Enfield Supercharger will be going online this week, weren't eCars supposed to be putting in a unit(s) at the same site?

mfceiling · 29-03-2022 5:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118852470#Comment_118852470

Like the painting of the ground spaces.

Next week.

markpb · 29-03-2022 5:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118852470#Comment_118852470

Is that confirmed about Tesla Enfield?

AndyBoBandy · 29-03-2022 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118852522#Comment_118852522

Post in the fb group quotes the guy working on them saying that they should be online today if no issues arise, but certainly by this week if not today.

Usually takes a few days for them to show up in the car's Nav though, and a few weeks to show up on the website (I think the website might get updated every quarter?)

liamog · 29-03-2022 5:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118852470#Comment_118852470

The main difference for us is the lack of large industrial users of electricity. Normally electrical infrastructure mirrors road infrastructure as that's where your industrial consumers are going to be. Ireland's grid infrastructure is more about getting energy between the cities. We're more likely to end up with big hubs on the edge of cities instead of large hubs on motorway services.

AndyBoBandy · 29-03-2022 5:41pm

Hubs on the outskirts of cities would be grand, as the majority of cities/big towns in Ireland are well within a full charge from each other, so it'd make absolute sense for cars to stop in before arrival at the destination city and take on a faster charge into a nice warm battery, and you then have plenty of charge for your business in and around a town/city (where charging is mostly crap).

Without wanting to sound Dublincentric.. all roads lead to Dublin, so you'd imagine in a 0-20km zone outbound from the M50, all the major routes should have hubs. The Ionity Kill sites serve the M7/8 routes to Dublin well, but apart from them, there's feck all else on the outskirts of the city on the big routes... same with other big towns/cities

wassie · 29-03-2022 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118852381#Comment_118852381

Incidentally, I saw an article on bonkers that said when taxation is removed energy costs in Ireland are almost 50% higher than other European countries. This is an indicator that grid costs here are a lot higher, I think that's something worth looking into

Irish Times had a piece on this the other day about our electricty costs and in particular network charges being the 4th highest in the EU...and thats due to our own making mostly thanks to Govt Policy.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/time-to-take-responsibility-for-our-electricity-prices-1.4836048

ESB eCars

Comments