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Biden mental state is just escalating the war in Ukraine - read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,711 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Sounds like crybullying to me. Putin acts as a bully, Biden stands up to him, and suddenly the act of standing up is seen as aggressive and the bully starts crying because they're the victim and Biden has a "questionable mental state".

    Whereas the act of labeling a peaceful neighbouring state as being full of Nazis and using it as an excuse for an unprovoked invasion, targeting hospitals full of kids and threatening the use of nueclear weapons against anyone who tries to help them out, while then not even allowing your own people to call it a "war" is perfectly sane...?

    Ok, then...

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Former advisor to Putin laying the smackdown on Bidens role in Ukraine:





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I think it's best to close it as the original thread claim was proven to be false and the OP hasn't provided evidence for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Wow the former advisor to Putin thinks Trump was great and Biden is bad. Well I'm sure his analysis is free of propaganda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,711 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Of course he does. Trump got rid of most or all of the sanctions imposed after Crimea.

    If Trump was still in power, he'd never had gone along with sanctions and Ukraine would probably already have fallen by now.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    The evidence is well known, it's been widely discussed.

    in kind

    PHRASE

    If you respond in kind, you react to something that someone has done to you by doing the same thing to them.

    In kind definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary (collinsdictionary.com


    • Biden told US troops they would see the inhabitants of Ukraine protesting in front of tanks when they go there, adding that some had already been there. “You’re going to see when you’re there, and some of you have been there, you’re gonna see — you’re gonna see women, young people standing in the middle — in front of a damned tank just saying, ‘I’m not leaving, I’m holding my ground.’” He then made the situation worse by apparently admitting they are training Ukrainian troops in Poland, which they have previously denied Biden appears to reveal US troops training Ukraine forces in Poland (nypost.com)
    • Biden said in front of the world's TV cameras that “For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power” Biden: ‘butcher’ Putin cannot be allowed to stay in power | Joe Biden | The Guardian Not 'should not remain in power' or 'needs to go (of his own accord)' but cannot ie. a call to action.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's a gross misrepresentation.

    Biden didn't stand up to him. He stated that Putin needed to be removed from power and immediately his staff walked it back because it was a reckless and idiotic thing for an American president to say in this exceptionally volatile situation.

    He then doubled down and said he wasn't walking anything back, undoing all of the work his staff had done, and then eventually capitulating and saying that he wasn't calling for a regime change.

    It's reckless and dangerous to use such inflammatory rhetoric.

    Criticism of Biden is not justifying Putin's behaviour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,608 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    He is Anti Putin now.

    He is just pointing out that Putin took the opportunity of Biden being elected.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    What opportunity?

    For as fun as this is for some to have an opportunity to take swipes at Biden, I have yet to see any reasonable argument as to how it is making any difference to what is going on. If Putin was emboldened because he thought the US and Western alliances were weak, then he was wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,608 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Biden, explicitly removed any doubt from Putins mind that the US would directly intervene if Ukraine was invaded, for no good reason. He asked Putin for his consent to deploy US troops into the stan countries bordering Afghanistan after he turned that into that withdrawal the biggest humiliation since Saigon. Putin probably couldnt believe his luck to have a US president defer to him over relations with neighboring countries

    If you're any other leader dealing with Biden how much are you going to actually share with him, given his inability to engage some sort of cognitive process before he opens his mouth



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Apparently Biden wasn't enough of a bullshit artist, which emboldened Putin somehow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,925 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    This many years on and you still just accept what the Kremlin says at face value? Just, wow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,711 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Fair point, more the west combined, but my point stands: who's the bully here?

    Nor was I critcising Putin - I was pointing out to the OP what "mentally unbalanced" actually means.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,925 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It just doesn't make sense. Look at US post WW2, we installed all manner of regimes in all manner of countries. We didn't then go make it purposefully harder for those regimes to remain in power after we did so. It would have been counterproductive. That's the story currently unfolding, anyway, according to former WH cabinet level persons: that Russia had a POTUS of its own support in the WH, and that POTUS constantly went on about giving up on the UN and giving up on NATO. It would have made entirely no sense for Russia to invade a country like Ukraine at that time, at a time the US was entertaining the possibility of dissolving NATO and such? You'd have to be mad. Invading Ukraine would have forced the hand of the west, even the hand of the US, to respond to Russia. It would have completely undone the progress being chipped away at to disband those alliances. You don't invade when your enemies are already making mistakes for themselves. You invade when you are pressed, in this case, pressed by a re-strengthening western alliance under the new US leadership. Similarly, the 2008 invasion of Georgia was instigated because the US under GWB had pressed NATO for a Membership Action Plan for both Georgia and Ukraine. Georgia was attacked very swiftly after that. Crimea was annexed when Russia lost popular political control inside Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    This many years on from what pal?

    When did I accept what the Kremlin said?

    We'll deal with the guts of your deflection after those two are answered, good chap



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,925 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Here you go ^ old bean. Your previous post I quoted was also just a heap of Kremlin pulp that they've been mirroring through Tucker Carlson:


    Carlson recounted the rough U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan last summer and said Biden abandoned Americans and left weapons behind for the Taliban to use. He then claimed the problem with U.S. international standing is that the country does not “bite”


    "It could not have been worse, So here you have two historic foreign policy debacles in under a year. Is there a precedent for that? What’s the message of it? Well, weakness, obviously.


    "Republicans often say that, but as usual don’t go far enough. Weakness? Well, North Korea is weak. They literally have famines. People starve to death in North Korea. That’s weakness. But they’re still a nation we have to contend with because they bite. A venomous spider is weak, you can crush it, but you’re still afraid of it because it bites. We do not bite. And that’s the problem.


    "We’re not simply weak. The United States government under Joe Biden is ridiculous, it’s pompous, it’s self-involved, it’s long long-winded and fatuous. It’s not so different from the fading old man who leads it. There’s no hiding this. The rest of the world sees it clearly, so do many Americans. If watching the invasion of Ukraine this week made you feel a little sick, this is probably why."

    vs. what you said

    Biden, explicitly removed any doubt from Putins mind that the US would directly intervene if Ukraine was invaded, for no good reason. He asked Putin for his consent to deploy US troops into the stan countries bordering Afghanistan after he turned that into that withdrawal the biggest humiliation since Saigon. Putin probably couldnt believe his luck to have a US president defer to him over relations with neighboring countries

    If you're any other leader dealing with Biden how much are you going to actually share with him, given his inability to engage some sort of cognitive process before he opens his mouth

    They're the same feathered bird.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    1) Answer the first question

    2) Take it up with the numerous news sources that reported it at the time https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-rebuffed-u-s-plans-for-bases-near-afghanistan-at-summit-with-biden-11629398848

    I know your stock in trade is "but..but Trump" and "but..but Tucker" I'm afraid the ship has sailed on those, everyones twigged them by now

    Time to deploy one of the other standard deflections, it never happened, it didn't happen like that, those words don't mean what they mean and so forth. Whichever is handy.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He explicitly removed any doubt only after the invasion and it is simply a restatement of US policy and an effort to avoid an escalation in to a world war. There are valid arguments for and against the statement but to suggest it reflects a poor mental state is beyond the bounds of reasonableness.

    Biden has managed to interact with all other Western leaders perfectly well and his comments on NATO and the Western World being currently more united than ever are true. That hardly suggests that other leaders somehow do not have faith in him.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    Biden has managed to interact with all other Western leaders perfectly well and his comments on NATO and the Western World being currently more united than ever are true. That hardly suggests that other leaders somehow do not have faith in him.

    Is that really the case though? What about the complete fiasco over the Mig 29s? Clearly someone in the White House or Pentagon was telling the Polish government one thing while official policy was completely different. Someone is singing from a different hymn sheet and they must be close to, or at, the top or the Polish government wouldn't be sending out press releases.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,925 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I addressed the words you wrote. You, are trying to attack my character with sophomoric generalizations - deflections to argue what you say are deflections. Take it up with the Russian media, who uses the exact same hymn sheet that you are singing from, to justify and sympathize with its war of choice against Ukraine. I make no apologies that being consistent, logical, and following a methodology of critical thinking, may have the adverse affect of appearing to be a 'stock trade' or 'standard,' because frankly that was always the goal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,925 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    What about the complete fiasco over the Mig 29s?


    What about it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    It's pretty obvious from the rest of the post. Either Biden himself is making promises with the Polish government that is against official policy, or someone directly below him decided to bypass Biden and take the initiative instead. Neither circumstance looks good for Biden's leadership, or his standing with the rest of NATO.

    Now we're being told that it's no big deal that the words he says in public are completely the opposite of what he actually meant. Even when it comes to an extremely tense time of international conflict.

    Baffles me that so many are willing to completely overlook this.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Or it was a Polish attempt to put pressure on the US to simultaneously help Ukraine and speed up the renewal of their air fleet that ultimately didn't find support. The US does not actually dictate everything that goes on in the world and the Polish government are well capable of making their own moves. Every country in Europe is not waiting to check with the US before they make any moves - Poland would have benefitted from that arrangement almost as much as Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,925 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I don't see how a multi-message approach differs from previous presidencies, especially cold war presidencies. Especially with something as sensitive as military conflict and exchange of weapons, I appreciate why any US administration would play coyness. It has long been US administrative policy to do a bit of gaslighting when it comes to our military and our intelligence. As have the Russians and Soviets before them. So in that regard sure, I guess it's an advantage to the President if some dismiss him as mentally instable. Other than that, no, I still don't know what you mean about it being a fiasco, and with the velocity of Russian reporting, I can't admit to having captured that whole story, if you wish to tell it.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    The timeline suggests the opposite. Blinken said in a speech in Moldova that they were 'very, very actively' looking at transferring Polish Migs to Ukraine and backfilling with F-16s. Poland then angrily tweeted that they were absolutely not going to offer their Migs for fear of provoking Russia:

    Chancellery of the Prime Minister of Poland @PremierRP_en

    Replying to @nexta_tv

    ‼️FAKE NEWS‼️ Unfortunately you are spreading misinformation with quotation from 27/02/22. Poland won't send its fighter jets to #Ukraine as well as allow to use its airports. We significantly help in many other areas.

    Then there must have been more backroom to and fro because it was then Poland's turn to publicly state they would offer the Mig 29s, via a US airbase. You can imagine their complete frustration and bafflement that the US government, after starting the whole **** show, then hung Poland out to dry.

    Complete diplomatic disaster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,925 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Blinken leaked this Mig transfer plan, or was it already being publicly discussed or publicly called for?



  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    What was lost in the disaster?

    Finally, we get back to the original point: the claim that Biden is obviously doing a fantastic job uniting NATO and other leaders have no difficulty with the mixed messages, gaffes and regular contradictions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,925 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    But, that would be Anthony Blinken's mental state, not Joe Biden's mental state. Disregard the rferl link, it is weeks older than my web search suggested it was.



  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    Whether it was Biden, Harris or Blinken that had gone off on a solo run, it is symptomatic of a lack of leadership on one of the most sensitive and public aspects of NATOs response. The Wall Street Journal headline says it all:

    NATO’s Polish MiG-29 Fiasco

    The White House divides the alliance and signals weakness to Putin by refusing to let Warsaw send fighter jets to Ukraine.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/natos-polish-mig-fiasco-biden-administration-pentagon-antony-blinken-poland-ukraine-russia-11646856011






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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,925 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    All the WSJ headline says is "This is an opinion piece on an outlet with a right wing slant"

    Wall Street Journal doesn't exactly have the same heft to it as Amnesty International concluding that Israel engaged in apartheid - know what I mean? All it really says is opinion said 'fiasco' so you say, 'fiasco!'

    If it's not Biden's mental state, it's not what we are discussing. It appears you are telling me Blinken made the diplomatic error.



  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    This is what Blinken said on March 9th, after visiting Poland and meeting both Polish and NATO leaders: “We are looking actively now at the question of airplanes that Poland may provide to Ukraine and looking at how we might be able to backfill should Poland decide to supply those planes,” Blinken said. “I can’t speak to a timeline but I can just say we’re looking at it very, very actively.” He wasn't giving his opinion, he was telling them 'we' are discussing it very actively. It's extremely unlikely Blinken was going on a solo run here, and if he was it reflects a very serious breakdown of leadership from the top down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,925 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Still not following how you get from there, to diagnosing the POTUS with a mental impairment. It is a conclusion in search of a cause.



  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    That's probably a memory lapse on your part, conjuring up a strawman. At no point did I claim any single botched statement or gaffe implies a mental impairment, but it's 'convenient' to imply I did. There is a pattern there, and it's reflected in the lack of confidence in his leadership in the latest polls.

    To refresh, the point I was actually responding to was:

    Biden has managed to interact with all other Western leaders perfectly well and his comments on NATO and the Western World being currently more united than ever are true. That hardly suggests that other leaders somehow do not have faith in him.

    This is clearly not the case, both Biden and those around him have made contradictory and confusing statements, leaving Poland and Ukraine exposed. I think it's unlikely that other NATO leaders, and especially Poland and Ukraine, have any faith that he means what he says and says what he means, or is showing decisive leadership for those below him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,925 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Sorry, I didn't mean to direct that squarely at You, but at the thread's thesis. I should have asked how do we



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,925 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    both Biden and those around him have made contradictory and confusing statements, leaving Poland and Ukraine exposed.

    Contradictory and confusing statements may indeed be a matter of state department policy right now, with a long and storied history of precedent. Exposed in regard to the mig deal, right?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That means they were actively looking at something. Doesn't mean the US were absolutely going ahead with it and it's as likely that the Polish tried to force their hand, then it backfired.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The headline is not even accurate. It is not up to the US whether Poland sends MIGs to Ukraine - what they wouldn't do is backfill the Polish air force or allow them to transfer via US air bases.

    Also, at the end of the day, I think it doesn't matter a damn what signals anyone sends to Putin.



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