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House with no driveway, on-street parking - what to do?

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭Julez


    Yeah, I personally would never put a cable uncovered across the path, a cable cover "should" be completely safe. If the goal for the country is to go fully electric in the near future, the government should be coming out with clear guidance so that people in this situation know exactly what they can do and how they can safely have an electric car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Completely safe for a wheelchair user? Completely safe for a person using a walking frame? Completely safe for a jogger or a child running?

    Motorists don’t own the footpath, and need to leave it clear. Build a nice high swinging arm well over head height if you need to bring a cable over it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,797 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    It's a fair point but surely the two shouldnt be mutually exclusive? However we are all aware of the compo culture and litigious nature of certain cohorts of people in this country who always seem to find themselves involved in some kind of accident or another. This is a major issue and is one reason why a hell of a lot of public spaces and indeed private buisiness are forced to severly curtail their operations or shut altogether.

    Other countries, I am sure, have solved this problem. Perhaps one of the reasons they have solved it is a far less litiguous culture has allowed for solutions that may not be available here?

    In relation to the issue that the OP has as far as I can see it there are many people who would have similiar issues and as such, if the country is to move fully to electric then these issues need to be addressed in a safe, cheap and effective manner.

    As I see it there are two strands.

    1. At home charging - The most obvious thing to do here is to set up a charge point on the edge of the Kerb - this would need to be a LA piece of work in this instance and would make most sense if thought off on a non-local level solution.
    2. At work charging. The Civil and Public sector should be driving this as opposed to falling behind. They are the biggest single employer in the country and a standardised "at work" charing infrastructure should be one of the first things implemented if the government are really serious about this.

    There is very little control the OP has over this situation bar selling up and buying elsewhere but this isn't practical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31 CantCatchCovid


    From the seai.

    The EV must be parked on an off-street parking location associated with the home

    Post edited by liamog on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 theinferior


    I've posted this link several times, but I think this is the best place for it.

    There is a solution to this problem. It is already being used in a few places in the UK and it costs the LA nothing at all. Basically, the owner of the nearby property offers to pay to have a gully or channel built into the footpath. It is just barely wide enough to take the cable and as such, no hazard for wheelchairs or buggies. It slopes gently downwards on the inside, so it doesn't fill with water. It absolutely does not grant any right to the homeowner to a particular parking spot, but it's up to the homeowner to take the risk if they want to.

    I'll paste in the link below to a council in the UK that is currently trialing it. I have tried several times to interest my own local authority of Fingal, but I'm getting the brush off, despite the fact that it can solve a problem for very little cost.

    Personally, I'd love an EV, but currently, the only thing that makes up the cost difference from an ICE, is the ability to charge from home.

    Here is the link:

    https://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/info/55/transport_roads_and_parking/1072/on-street_electric_vehicle_charging_pilot/2



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Mod Note: There should be no discussion of damage to other peoples property or taking the law into your own hands



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭Julez


    Yes, it should be completely safe... a gentle small ramp is no different to any curb or normal obstacle you may encounter while out walking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Curbs don't generally run across the middle of the footpath. Did you speak to many wheelchair users in coming to your conclusion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭Julez


    No, but I'm aware that wheelchairs can get over small bumps. There are safe ways for this to be done, that shouldn't be an argument, but it's about stating clear guidelines that people can follow that ensures that when it is done these users are accounted for and so that it's not an issue for them or anyone using the footpath.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Newoven


    Hampshire CC in England seem to be happy with people using cable protectors on footpaths. Not a fan of the idea myself as I do think it's imposing my needs on my neighbours, and I can imagine it would be a nuisance for wheelchair users and Zimmerframes, but it would solve my problem as an EV driving terraced house owner. Some issue posting the link but this is what they say - google Hampshire Electric vehicle charging guidelines for the full article;

    Electric vehicle charging guidance for residents

    It is important to consider public safety and existing legislation when placing the cable from the power supply in your home to your vehicle. Any legal liability arising from the placement of the cable or protector is your responsibility. You may wish to speak to your home insurer to confirm that your home insurance policy covers this situation.

    Vehicles should be parked as close to the property as possible. Where a vehicle cannot be parked immediately outside the property, the cable should be run along the carriageway channel against the kerb. The recommended maximum distance from a point outside the property is 10 metres (approximately 2 car lengths).

    The cable should not cross the carriageway therefore your vehicle should always be parked on the same side of the road as your property.

    Cables should be laid flat and never be extended from an upper storey to a vehicle, nor should they be hung from any street furniture including lamp columns or trees.

    A cable should only be placed over the footway when the vehicle is charging and should always be removed when not in use.

    Using a cable protector

    The most suitable solution for getting the cable from your property boundary to your vehicle safely is to use a suitable cable protector. Cable protectors are regularly used in public spaces and areas of high footfall to cover cables or wires on a temporary basis.

    Any cable protector used should cover the area likely to be walked across, including the full width of any footway and verge between the property and the vehicle.

    The cable protector should be non-slip, have contrasting colour markings e.g. yellow, have anti-trip sloped sides, and be of a tough construction suitable for outdoors use.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The way to make sure it's not an issue for anyone using the footpath is to not have it on the footpath. Put the charger on the road, at the roadside and charge from there. Keep cables off the footpath.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,785 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    I wouldn't be a fan of running cable across the path, even with a protector. Solution is to have a charge point/bollard at the kerb-side, or to run a chase channel across the path with galvanised drop in, or hinged trunking. The owner would simply lift the covering when the car needed charging and lay the cable in the channel to the car. No hazards.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Ouch Chinese Byrne


    You could look into a charge arm

    not sure if they are available here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭Type 17




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    In one of the cases I mentioned about. The owner contacted the developer who still is responsible for the estate and asked about performing work on the path to run a cable underneath for a post charger.

    They got told contact the council, council said talk to the developer. Repeat.

    The other case also requested something similar from developer and was told it is unlikely to be allowed because in the path in front of their house runs all the fibre cables for their road. So the developer did not want to give permission to allow a channel to be dug in the path to allow a cable to be run for post charger.

    Practical solutions need to be found but neither developers or councils are very accommodating at the present. These two cases I know the details of aren't even the most complex as they have designated parking outside their homes but separated by a path. What about all the other new developments where parking is not directly in front of the houses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,236 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I think the NMD installed charging arm (the photo with the outlander PHEV above) is what I would go for in the scenario. I know you wouldnt get the grant for it but it works, and is safer IMO than putting the cable on the ground.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭HBC08


    I have no interest in an EV for any amount of reasons but the Mrs does and it would suit her driving.

    However we are in the same position as many on this thread,end of terrace town house with no designated parking (but I nearly always get the spot outside my house)

    It's not possible to install a charger in this situation therefore it's not possible for her to have an EV.Im sure there are hundreds of thousands if not over a million people in a similar situation and I'm glad to see it being talked about.Its the elephant in the room that never seems to get much airtime when the topic of EV comes up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    If you ever plan on buying an EV dont even entertain the idea of buying a house without a driveway.

    Even if you could install a charger across the path. There is not even a garantee that someone else ownt park in your space that you put the charger in.

    That said i have seen a person who just cut out a trench with a consaw and stuck a socket into the kerb. Then just cemented over the path and its perfectly smooth. I wonder if they ever had a problem where someone else parked in that space though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,123 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Home charger isn’t going to work for you unfortunately



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Much better would be to enquire with the management company or council when buying the house, we've had a kerbside charger for 5 years in an non dedicated space. We've never had an issue and run two EVs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Newoven


    I’m a terraced house owner who just bought an EV. I can’t charge at home. Of course I knew this before I bought the car so I was prepared to rely on eCars chargers in Dublin 2 & 8 plus superchargers on longer journeys. It’s not ideal but it works ok for me. I charge to 100% on Sunday afternoons when parking is free around D2. It takes a while to charge at 11kw AC but I just leave it there for a few hours and pick it up later. It’s a minor hassle I’m prepared to put up with for the pleasure of driving a Tesla and living close to the city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭BrookieD


    I live in a terraced without a drive in Ashbourne, non managed cul-de-sac, not handed over to management firm and not touched by council so right fudged however i have two options from 3 installers, Cable across path with cable cover or can chase into pavement and then a kerbside pedestal - there is a price difference but as we ar ein a very low foot fall location as in near zero i could live with cable cover and trip hazard signage when cable is in use.. contacted council members in area and was told if installed correctly they were fine, i took that as a " we dont care" reply to be honest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭kirving


    I don't mean to have a go at you specifically, and I understand that Sunday afternoon isn't the busiest times in the world, and that you're paying for the charge.

    But IMO public chargers should ideally be left for top ups for people passing through who need it to get home, rather than a full, slow, charge.

    Kind of related, but I very often see the PHEVs with tiny batteries taking both charging ports around D2/D4 spaces for hours on end.

    IMO, and as a PHEV driver myself, no way should they be allowed use public EV chargers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Just to be clear here I'm not having a go,you've stated your goals and what you do to achieve that so fair play to you.

    In my opinion it's complete madness to pay however much you had to pay for a car and then have to put that level of planning and organisation into making sure the car can drive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭kirving





  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    But IMO public chargers should ideally be left for top ups for people passing through who need it to get home, rather than a full, slow, charge.

    Everyone is opinionated on public charger usage, the opinions can be pretty much summed up as "someone is using it in a different way to my use case therefore they are using it wrong". Charge points are for charging cars, whether that's a weekly top up for someone without private charging or someone who bought a car with a battery too small that needs a top up either of the users are correctly charging. My only bugbear is the eCars locations where they mix AC and DC leading to reduced capacity on the DC chargers, that's an issue with the infra rather than the users.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    The bigger issue with houses without parking is should they be allowed to be stored on public space in the first place. Maybe a parking garage where all of the cars on a particular street, area could be stored and charged would be a better use of public space than rows of cars on narrow streets, on footpaths etc...

    Would mean you could effectively remove cars from streets, maybe leave a handful of disabled spaces or for elderly people.

    Leaving space for kids, bikes, trees etc..

    Radical change but worth looking at.

    You're not allowed put your garden shed out on the path but no one bats an eyelid at a car parked there every day



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The bigger issue with houses without parking is should they be allowed to be stored on public space in the first place. Maybe a parking garage where all of the cars on a particular street, area could be stored and charged would be a better use of public space than rows of cars on narrow streets, on footpaths etc...

    Putting on the mod hat for a second, that's well outside the remit of the EV forum, probably a discussion more suited to general infrastructure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    You're probably right, was just thinking in terms of trying to solve on street charging. Maybe we're looking at solutions that just cause more problems and a more radical change is needed.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Newoven


    No offence taken, I get your point. All EV drivers have to calculate the range available and consider the charging that they will need I’ve just gotten back from a trip to Cork and I had to supercharge on the way. The car needs 80% of the battery to make the full trip so it’s no problem if it’s fully charged, but I left Dublin with 55% charge and had to work out where to charge and for how long. The thing is the car’s satnav will work it out as will apps like A Better Route Planner so it’s easy to do. I’d like to have a charger somewhere where I’ll be parked anyway like the golf club or gym or supermarket. Some do have them so I can charge while I’m doing something else but it’s early days for others.

    Your comment about how much I had to pay for the car reminds me of my father’s reaction - 50k for a car to sit outside the door! But I have the money and I like the car so I am as happy to spend it on the car as to watch the cash slowly lose value in the bank. Conveniently Tesla increased the price of Model 3s by more than €3k last week so mine has actually gone up in value in the first month. That and the current diesel prices make me feel quite smug! Here’s hoping it continues when I’m competing with 50 Kia and Hyundai drivers for those eCars chargers shortly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Newoven


    No worries, I take your point.

    At the moment there are 10 22kw AC chargers in walking distance from my house, most of them in the D2 business district. That means they’re not busy at weekends or at night which coincides with the times parking is free and I am likely to use them. So I hope I’m not blocking them when others badly need them, but even if I am I THINK that’s not something I can avoid as a city living EV owner. The answer must be more neighbourhood chargers and more fast chargers for those in urgent need of a top up to get home. ECars faster chargers have a 45 minute limit so they are ideal for anyone in a rush, the trouble is there are very few of them.

    My network of streets is beginning to see more EVs now and there are a selection of good spots where lamppost chargers or slow AC chargers could be located. We don’t need personal chargers on our houses, we need to be able to plug into 7kw overnight once every week or ten days. But nobody seems to be listening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I once heard someone say owning an EV is like owning a horse for transport. You cant just get in and drive it. You have to plan everything and not push it too hard and basically make a fuss over it. Its like owning an animal you have to care for all the time :) As an EV driver (not actually mine but I drive it a lot) I would say thats true :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Where there is a will, there is a way..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    This article might be of interest;



    On the general issue of chargers, I'm not sure why some EV owners seem to expect the State to provide. The State never provided petrol stations. Surely this should be a commercial service provided on a commercial basis.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    On the general issue of chargers, I'm not sure why some EV owners seem to expect the State to provide. The State never provided petrol stations. Surely this should be a commercial service provided on a commercial basis

    Probably a bad time to point out the state tenders for build and operation of motorway service stations ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Which is a tiny portion of the overall fuel station market, a smaller portion than the portion of the current EV charging market already provided by the State.


    So it’s time for the great free market economy to step up. It would surely be a good opportunity for existing fuel stations,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,344 ✭✭✭markpb


    It's in the state's interest to encourage the use of EVs, public transport and active transport so we can avoid paying huge fines for excessive pollution in the future. As it stands, EV charging isn't (or doesn't appear to be) commercially viable and this could discourage people from buying them. This is why people expect the government to subsidise it or at the very least, co-ordinate it.

    Once EVs reach sufficient market coverage that charging is commercially viable, state supports/subsidies should be wound down.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    We're still very early days into the infrastructure transition, the state has provided funding to kick start the movement. It's a typical chicken and egg problem, EV charging needs to be ubiquitous to enable EV ownership, EV ownership needs to be bigger to make EV charging sustainable. The alternative is EVs are only used by people who can charge at home and pay for a battery that covers 1000km between charges.

    I'd much rather see us remove the €5,000 purchase subsidy for a new vehicle and instead use that money to incentivise charging infrastructure, if we had charging infrastructure on the same scale as Norway people could spend less money and buy cars with smaller batteries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭WacoKid


    I live in house with no driveway. Last month eCarInfra installed a EO Mini Pro 2 for me at the front door and I use a mat to cover the cable. Approx. 1.2 metre of path to cover. I now charge every day!


    SEAI covered €600 or the €1249 cost.


    I have a hybrid so only need to charge max. 2.5 hours a day. I do it during the day as I work from home and the area is very quiet at this time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,785 ✭✭✭...Ghost...



    The 5k subsidy needs to stay for the time being. Were it not for the subsidy, I wouldn't have purchased an EV to replace my Petrol E200. It wouldn't have been possible to then replace the Zaffy a couple months later with our second EV, because second hand prices would have been much higher. The subsidy has helped greatly bring EVs within the reach of so many people. My MIL bought an EV the same summer (2017). My SIL bought an EV the following summer. That was 4 Leafs in the family in less than a year. My BILs girlfriend got herself an Ioniq in 2017 too because it just made financial sense and was affordable thanks to the grant.

    Incentives and penalties are what drive behaviours in such decisions. Getting a 0% interest loan on a new leaf is largely what made me order one. The shorter waiting period on deliveries was a factor, but cost was the big one for me.

    Stay Free



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Take the example of the LEAF, it's available in 40kWh (€29,935) and 62kWh (€36,090) versions, for the people buying the 62kWh would they have been better off buying a 40kWh for €34,935 but with that €5,000 going towards DC charging infrastructure.

    We've sold 4,314 EVs this year, that represents €21,570,000 that could of been spent incentivising chargers instead of vehicles, that's double the state support provided for the 3 year eCars programme in just 3 months.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Even worse is that I think Nissan currently just trousers the 5000/uses it for 0% finance. The L40 used to start at €22k (maybe excluding the delivery) after subsidies back in 2018 when it was possible to buy a XE L40 for a while before it was discontinued. I suspect the subsidy at the moment is bad value for money.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    The subsidies work and it was way too soon to introduce the €60k cap. I brought two EVs in from the UK with zero VRT payable, these have now both supplied the used car market



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Did you just ignore this SEAI condition when you applied for the grant?


    It's in the state's interest to encourage healthy eating, but it doesn't go out and buy broccoli for us. We've done too much carrot and not enough stick here.

    Seriously? You reckon the state should be subsidising very expensive luxury cars for those who can well afford to pay full price themselves?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Hey well I think it's good just to be having the conversation so I'm interested to hear you point of view and experience.

    Something will have to give as I suspect most people (myself included) wouldn't want to pay that much for a car that makes their life more complicated than whatever car they have now.

    Who knows what technology or circumstances will bring over the next decade.I think I'll be waiting for a wireless charging car or something like that,otherwise I'll be sticking with ICE.

    The government can bring in all the incentives they like but if the whole thing just doesn't make sense then it won't be pursued.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    I suggest the state should be subsidising every EV onto the road regardless of price, yes. It works, it's been proven to work but pulled by the inept Irish Gov. Only the idiots in Gov pull incentives whilst in adoption phase



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭crisco10


    The state doesn't have to provide, but it can certainly do more to support.

    For example, they (via Dublin City council) could bloody well paint two parking spaces green on John Rogerson Quay. As it is, they're failing at that.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    The Norwegian EV incentives:

    • No purchase/import taxes (1990-)
    • Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-)
    • No annual road tax (1996-2021). Reduced tax from 2021. Full tax from 2022..
    • No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017).
    • Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-)
    • Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019)
    • Free municipal parking (1999- 2017)
    • Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maximum 50% of the full price (2018-)
    • Access to bus lanes (2005-). New rules allow local authorities to limit the access to only include EVs that carry one or more passengers (2016)
    • 50 % reduced company car tax (2000-2018). Company car tax reduction reduced to 40% (2018-) and 20 percent from 2022.
    • Exemption from 25% VAT on leasing (2015)
    • Fiscal compensation for the scrapping of fossil vans when converting to a zero-emission van (2018)




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