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2022 Seanad by-election

245

Comments

  • Administrators Posts: 54,257 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Clonan, Gaffney and MacNeil starting to pull away from the chasing pack now.

    Chu down on 11% while MacNeil topping with 17%.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Forgive my amusement at Trish McKenna's 2.75%! Good to see that I'm not the only voter who remembers her antics the last time that she was an election candidate!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,980 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    If it wasn't for Ray Barrett she'd be clearly the looniest candidate.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Chu is unlikely to get enough of a split of the transfers to climb ahead of Gaffney/Clonan now. McNeill won't get that many transfers.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think there are a lot of votes to be redistributed, so anything can happen. She is only 300 votes behind the first candidate with over 6,000 votes to get redistributed. We are only on count one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Transfers from the various left wing candidates beneath her are likely to break similarly to the first count, e.g. more to Gaffney than Chu.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,618 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Small number of transfers only after the first 3 counts (172 total votes for the 2 eliminated candidates) but they've gone:

    • Clonan 29
    • Quill 22
    • Chu 19
    • Gaffney 10
    • MacNeill 7


    MacNeill is still leading but not for much longer based on that. Clonan's got to be the favourite now - he's only 99 votes behind MacNeill and seems to be really transfer friendly.

    Each subsequent elimination will mean more transfers allowing us to get a better picture. By lunchtime we should have a good idea of who's going to win.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The second lowest candidate was a joke candidate (as in running as a joke) so those transfers are not the best to try analyse!

    Some things of interest to come now - will Barry's votes go heavily to Quill on party lines, or not (I expect not) and where will be the ~1000 votes that the two anti-EU candidates are likely to have at elimination go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,618 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Transfers to the top 5 candidates after Count #4

    • Quill 49
    • Clonan 43
    • Chu 36
    • Gaffney 31
    • MacNeill 17


    Chu proving to be more transfer friendly then I anticipated although she's still losing pace to Clonan who's 188 votes ahead of her.

    MacNeill's lead down to 95 now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    No obvious Barry->Quill party transfer, Clonan continues closing on McNeill (but there's still enough votes amongst the various left women to overtake these significantly)


    Next elimination would have been a double but for three votes - candidates on 220, 222 and 440

    The candidate just eliminated ran for the Greens in 2020, but party votes don't really matter here as we've just seen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Shelga


    I voted #1 for Tom Clonan, gave Maureen Gaffney my #3. I do like the idea of senators being independent.

    Why is Hugo McNeill doing so well? Anyone who puts rugby as a selling point on the blurb of their leaflets is an instant no from me.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Possibly because not everyone who voted shares your view of the world. I voted for him despite the fact that he played rugby for Ireland!

    Incidentally, if you voted for Clonan no.1 then it's unlikely that your lower preferences are going to matter very much!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Fair enough, but even if someone is a rugby fan, I don’t see how someone’s prior experience in rugby is of any use whatsoever in the Seanad! Sure, there’ll be some votes on sports funding etc, but when you see some of the achievements of the other candidates, I don’t really get it. Yes of course I can only speak for myself.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    My voting strategy involved asking myself which candidate would Bacik be most upset to see winning her seat - and the answer was very obvious!

    My son's voting strategy was equally logical - he asked himself who was most likely to beat Chu based on the recent TCD election, so went for Clonan!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Bassett, I would have expected - McNeill would be lower down than having Bassett in there spouting.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,130 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Looking at the count I think Hazel Chu has an outside chance here

    Roseingrave, Mckenna, O'Neill, Stocker and Quill could all swing it to Chu


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 168 ✭✭9320


    I think Gaffney will win it - MacNeill is toast I would think, just not going to get the transfers. Chu probably too far behind Gaffney so Gaffney versus Clonan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭jolivmmx


    I voted Gaffney as my number one and Clonan as number two



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Roseingrave nearly 2:1 to Gaffney over Chu


    McKenna's voters could be anything and everything these days, McNeill and non-transferable could take more than Chu!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    The extent of McKenna's transfers in Chu's direction could be significant. If she isn't well ahead of Gaffney after that then I reckon she hasn't a hope!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    McKenna now out with 463 votes to transfer.


    This could be a very odd split. Some Green line stuff to Chu, anti EU to Bassett (enough to keep him in for another count? Probably not) etc

    Chu will need an exceptionally strong split to get ahead of Gaffney on this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,130 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I heard a tally of O'Neills number 2 transfers went way over 40% to Chu

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,130 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I still think Chu has an outside chance from transfers.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭jolivmmx




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Oluborode would have some small g green stuff along with O'Neill that could link through to Chu.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Going on William Quill's spreadsheet (he hasn't tweeted the summary yet), Gaffney got more of McKenna's transfers than Chu; Bassett now out.

    edit:




  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭jolivmmx


    I cannot imagine a lot of Bassett’s votes will go to Chu



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    McNeill and the bin (non transferable) to be the main winners, I'd expect.

    I thought they'd take more than Chu from McKenna, which they did combined (32+32 vs 60) at least.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,130 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I heard there was a tally that she was getting roughly 45% of Sadhbh ONeill number 2s

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭jolivmmx


    She would still need in excess of 250 extra votes, as it stands currently, plus whatever excess that the other candidates receive. I just cannot see it happening



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Only really helpful if Gaffney doens't get ~20% or more though; which considering who will be left is quite likely.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    It looks like Gaffney is getting more transfers than Chu, and McNeil is not getting enough, so between Gaffney and Conan.

    The differences between the front four is about the number of transfers each is getting, and that will increase as more are eliminated, so still all to play for - but Chu has a long way to go to catch up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Minor aside - if Gaffney gets this, it will give Trinity two of the oldest members of the Oireachtas in her and Norris.



  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭jolivmmx


    When I was reading up on her, she stated that she was the first person in her family to go to College. I like that!



  • Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    So this elitist nonsense is only open to those who graduated out of Trinity College. Any other requirements, like you have to own 2 houses as well?

    Cannot believe we still have this farce, along with the media giving it attention.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Spreadsheet reading pre-Quill tweet again - MacNeill and Clonan the main recipients of Bassett's votes. Oluborode out. Gaffney eked a tiny bit further ahead of Chu

    MacNeill only leads by 7 now and I expect that to end on the next count.

    Its all left or left-ish women to go out now; but both Chu and Gaffney are potential recipients for that vote. And Clonan of course; he can't be entirely written off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Have to laugh that the discussion here is all about Chu even though she looks like an outside chance only at this point. She's quite the divisive character.

    Not a great selection of candidates there to be fair. How many of them seem to be some shade of green?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    You have to have a horse worth at least £5.

    It's mad that such a rotten borough can exist in a modern democracy tbh, and I say that as someone who had a vote here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 868 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    Presuming Clonan passes out MacNeill, would you think it'd come down to MacNeill's transfers?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Three of them have run as Greens in other races (Chu, O'Neill and Roseingrave); one is a member of the lawyers environmental group (Oluborode).

    Its mathematically possible for it not to come to that... but it probably will.



  • Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    It's like we've got an Irish version of the House of Lords.

    Bacik being the previous incumbent says it all really.

    Some Republic, eh?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,980 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The Irish electorate voted in the 7th amendment of the Constitution in 1979 to extend a Seanad vote to all graduates, but this has never been legislated for.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,805 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Not true, you don’t need to be a graduate of Trinity to run.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Since no Senator has a 'constituency' - that is, they are Senators for the whole country - they could dispense with byelections for the Seanad altogether.

    Save a bit of cash as well - not just the cost of the election, but also the few bob they get for the odd day they sit, plus all the unvouched expenses for when they do not bother turning up. It is no wonder that 17 people think its worth having a shot at a nice little earner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Constitution requires the vacancies to be filled, albeit it doesn't specify how. I suspect changing it to County Council like procedures would probably be OK. That would have seen it given to Quill in this case probably.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Iirc a few others has bits in their literature about climate and biodiversity. A good few had stuff in there about gender issues as well. While the above are important issues, they are hardly the most pressing facing the country right now. That said, maybe that speaks more about an electorate that has the luxury to worry about these kinds of things while the rest of us deal with a housing and cost of living crisis. Only a few mentioned education, which is a bit mad considering it is a university seat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭jolivmmx


    It may end up between Clonan and Chu



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,193 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Decent split for Chu on Oluborode's votes. Clonan now leading.

    Counts should be quite a bit slower from now on, decent jump in vote volumes. (once they've done Stocker's 657, which I forgot had to be done first...)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,618 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Chu is doing incredibly well with recent transfers. I had her written off but I'm not so sure now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,980 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That said, maybe that speaks more about an electorate that has the luxury to worry about these kinds of things while the rest of us deal with a housing and cost of living crisis.

    Ironically, the only (IIRC) candidate to mention those issues was the "joke" candidate.

    https://www.tcd.ie/seanad/candidates/meetcandidates/Candidate%20Bios/Michael%20McDermott.php

    He is running on a loosely-assembled platform of abolishing the Seanad from within and being a voice for current students and the recently graduated who can’t seem to find any accommodation in Dublin because there’s too many hotels in the way. This group is mostly ineligible to vote in this election so it’s clearly something he believes in rather than a shrewd electoral strategy.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



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