Got a notice I was banned from driving and no idea why

utmbuilder · 27-03-2022 9:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843957#Comment_118843957

Tell me about it Jim, just settled a tax bill Friday from Covid meltdown it wasn't fun.

So went the garda station they where just in awe that's not correct, go to court. So will hopefully get an appeal and stay on 3 points if they accept the mix-up on show my license will pony up for a solicitor to help.

Thanks for everyone's input and help it's worn in now, and this is an issue I have to face. on the speeding remarks, I don't agree with speeding and personally, it bothers me exceptionally the fact I was speeding its actually embarrassing to me, as I see no benefit in speeding it never gets you anywhere faster.

utmbuilder · 27-03-2022 9:21pm

Your right on the whole address thing, moved around a lot before buying a house with my own wife and kids letters are going all over the place.

Will be setting anpost redirect tomorrow as well.

Hopefully all goes well or I will be in tight hi-vis shorts on a eskooter and voting for the green party

😜

WishUWereHere · 27-03-2022 10:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844245#Comment_118844245

Hope all gets sorted OP. Just don’t know what the hell the greens have to do with this. Personally, I hope they r wiped out come the next election.

But whatever, that’s for another thread.

Ubbquittious · 27-03-2022 10:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118841204#Comment_118841204

There is always some fcuccin do gooder

That's why I hate this forum

Ubbquittious · 27-03-2022 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118841732#Comment_118841732

There's loads of fellas on here doing that. Luckily they all congregate on this particular cesspool of the internet and u rarely meet them in real life or even other forums. 0 craic, love sitting by on the sidelines watching others get the book thrown at them. Sad, sad individuals

GNWoodd · 28-03-2022 12:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842403#Comment_118842403

How can a summons to appear at a ( presumably ) specific time and at a specific court sitting be issued automatically without input from the original Garda ? Is the system being run by robots ?

The more I read about the prosecution of road traffic offences the more I believe that AGS make up a lot of this stuff as they go along and also that every single issue should be challenged .

Some of what is going on is just bizarre.

Witcher · 28-03-2022 12:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844869#Comment_118844869

The system is explained in the post.

Are you still raging about being put off the road?

Killinator · 28-03-2022 1:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844869#Comment_118844869

It's not that complicated.

The system checks if a production has been carried out within the 10 days as required.

If no such production is logged than a summons is created with the information relating to the incident (which has already been provided via FCN creation)

This summons application is sent to courts office in the relevant district and a date is set for the summons to first come before the courts. There is no set time alocated for the appearance as you are expected to attend court when it opens unless otherwise advised.

It's straight forward and makes sense, the OP by their own admission did not produce the required documentation within the required time limit. And further provided a different address to where they were staying at the time the summons would have been posted/served.

What exactly is your issue?

GNWoodd · 28-03-2022 9:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844978#Comment_118844978

Does the sending of the summons application by the AGS system to the District Court system happen automatically ?

Witcher · 28-03-2022 10:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845575#Comment_118845575

It has already been explained that it is.

GNWoodd · 28-03-2022 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845683#Comment_118845683

But if the motorist subsequently applies for certiorari of the decision to apply for the summons or indeed question any other aspect of the wider case who gets to represent AGS in the dock ?

Witcher · 28-03-2022 11:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846090#Comment_118846090

Again, this has been explained. You're choosing to ignore the answers posted.

GNWoodd · 28-03-2022 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846140#Comment_118846140

My question has not been answered . Who represents AGS where there is a challenge to their original or any subsequent decision ?

If you don’t know why not say so

TheShepard · 28-03-2022 12:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843858#Comment_118843858

Nothing is wrong with my maths. First of all it wasn't a petty meeting. Second, I was doing 98kmh in a 50kmh (not 60kmh) and thirdly I was merely saying that 15kmh-20kmh doesn't warrant a ban since I was doing way over that and didn't get one. And yes it was 3 penalty points, i only have them points on my license. You can look up the penalty points system for yourself if you think my maths is wrong.

Instead of being a smartass why don't you do something more productive.

Sierra Oscar · 28-03-2022 12:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846214#Comment_118846214

If there's an appeal lodged the prosecuting Garda gets notified of same and attends court.

When the original summons is issued the prosecuting Garda is notified and attends Court or ensures another Garda covers the initial dates until a hearing date is set and evidence is required to be given.

28-03-2022 12:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239043/got-a-notice-i-was-banned-from-driving-and-no-idea-why

Hi OP......this thread went off in a million stupid/ totally non relevant directions....being honest I lost interest when some troll was advocating being put off the road for 15Km over.

BACK to your original post.......you say you ain't been getting a fair " bounce" of the ball lately.........but this 'ban' without knowing the reason.....DID YOU GET TO BOTTOM OF THAT???????

28-03-2022 12:27pm

Hopefully it will works out for you OP and do get all those addresses sorted - it’s a pain in the ass but obviously worth doing.

I’m on 3 points myself doing an embarrassing bit over a 60km zone- never even realised it was a 60 nor the speed I was doing - was in a world of my own- I tell ya, having 3 points on your licence for the next few years really sharpens your driving skills - I’m so conscious now of speed limits - it happens you’ve obviously learned a lesson - move on and best of luck

GNWoodd · 28-03-2022 12:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846329#Comment_118846329

Finally , the correct answer .

Illustrating that the prosecuting Garda is at all times aware that the summons to appear in Court has been set in motion. Not automatically as we are being led to believe . He wouldn’t be able to defend his position if he wasn’t aware of every detail.

My point in all of this is that justice should not only be done but also be seen to done . Not some sort of I definitely done my housework sir but the dog ate it !

Sierra Oscar · 28-03-2022 1:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846461#Comment_118846461

I'm not sure what your point is. Summonses for a wide array of offences are automatically created, they are not created by the prosecuting Garda. The entire FCN system is automated for example. The first the prosecuting Garda will become aware of it is when they receive a copy of the summons listing the court date and time. They have no input into the creation of the summons itself other than initiating the automated system by issuing a FCN or demanding the production of documents and so on.

They also won't have any detail regarding when the summons was served or by whom. The summons server completes details of when the summons was served, not the prosecuting Garda. This is then handled by the Courts Service and ensures the matter is listed in court. A summons that was not served cannot be listed in court.

The prosecuting Garda can check information regarding how and when a summons was served, but they don't automatically get that information. The Courts Service on the other hand automatically have that information to hand. If a matter is listed in court then there is an automatic assumption that the summons was served.

sergioaguero · 28-03-2022 4:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118841182#Comment_118841182

get off your high horse ffs

coylemj · 28-03-2022 4:30pm

OP, just be aware that if you appeal to the Circuit Court, you will be appealing a specific conviction. And from your posts, I'm not even sure that you know the details of the conviction that got you disqualified. There is no point in going to your local Garda Station, the officer behind the counter has no access to the records of the District Court.

You need to get a solicitor to lodge an appeal before the disqualification cuts in on March 31st. It will get very complicated if you have not lodged an appeal by that date. Because if you have not lodged an appeal, the disqualification will kick in and remain in place until you successfully apply for an extension to the time allowed to lodge an appeal and get the disqualification suspended.

So get that appeal lodged ASAP or you will be off the road by Thursday.

GNWoodd · 28-03-2022 6:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118847767#Comment_118847767

Surely the Garda station and those who work there know if a motorist was summoned to court for a road traffic offence ????

utmbuilder · 28-03-2022 6:28pm

So an update! and probally the final post from me on this issue.

Went to the court house the conviction was for no insurance, the no license was quashed what ever that means.

Its a expensive process to appeal I had to send a registered letter to the gaurd, and have to present infront of a judge tomorrow could cost 300, then I get a circut court appeal.

Looked over my insurance records, I had a "dulxe comprehensive policy" on a new car that was in getting fixed in the garage, and was driving a 08 car. The policy states I can drive any car but we will see if thats really true, or if the car has to be insured or I some other technicality trips me up.

I paid my insurance on the 5th, and was stopped on the 6th recepits for that and a policy with a fully schedule of payments.

So all in all I have a case to fight in the circut court, and will have to pay for a solicitor along with the appeal and hope I keep my license.

They said the summons would of all came together in 2021 when I paid the speeding ticket, (dont think this happened).

Slow down everyone and keep your paperwork,

FGR · 28-03-2022 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118848253#Comment_118848253

There'd be no harm in showing your insurance documents to the presenting inspector in the court tomorrow. The Inspector or the Prosecuting guard, if happy, may accede to withdraw the case and consent to the appeal without a need for you to give evidence.

I'm not a solicitor but if your policy covers you driving other cars with the permission of the owner then I can't see any issue.

Either way make sure you stay and wait to see the outcome just in case anything else crops up.

GM228 · 28-03-2022 6:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118847767#Comment_118847767

The OP could actually seek a set aside of the conviction if they can prove they got no summons to the original hearing (if I'm correct in interpreting how the OP says things went), this is done at DC level and saves the whole appeal process via the CC.

It is also then possible for the case to be held again in the DC if the court is unwilling to grant an application for a set aside.

utmbuilder · 28-03-2022 7:06pm

Thanks FGR Will give that a go in court tomorrow, but will be asking the judge to charge me as little as possible for the appeal too as I am settling another big bill tomorrow in respect to late property tax on my house. Up to my neck in bills at the moment but things are moving forward but communions and stuff coming up so need to try get ahead as the business is building up again slowly, and it is building up so it could be worse.

I wont say the insurance policy but it reads as "motor duluxe comprehensive insurance" from a major insurance company, it says i am fully comprehensive even when driving another car, the policy under mine says its third party when driving another car

some people I spoke to relatives etc say theres a old rule the car should be insured by the owner and then the compehensive insurance is valid, but thats not stated on the policy but who knows

utmbuilder · 28-03-2022 7:06pm

on more positive news there was a barber empty beside the post office I posted the Gaurd the letter in, so got my hair cut which I probally would not have taken the time to do for a month or more!

So I get tomorrow over with, wait for appeal get solicitor prior, and this Friday 3 more teeth extractions in Drogheda! Having the 5 I got two weeks back just healing. :D life does keep you alive sometimes.

...Ghost... · 28-03-2022 8:45pm

Read the insurance policy. It will say if the other car must be insured by another person. Some policies specify it and some don't.

utmbuilder · 28-03-2022 9:02pm

That's a big help it doesn't say it has to be insured by another person but does say it can't be a hire car which it wasn't

Casati · 28-03-2022 9:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118848797#Comment_118848797

Looks like you are in the clear. I presume it also says its a car you cannot own- which presumably it wasn't?

utmbuilder · 28-03-2022 9:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118848913#Comment_118848913

Hopefully the car wasnt put in my name by my father, as I said he is a bit mad in the head about toll bridge fines. He said it wasnt but until I see it on black and white on paper I wont believe it.

I will be getting a vechile ownership log I believe this is possible via cartell or a similar service I could be wrong.

Feeling better about it all but wont be in the clear until I am out of circut court appeal.

I got my insurance cert sent over to have for court tomorrow but I think that would be a lucky escape reckon it will have to be appealed.

munster87 · 29-03-2022 8:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842195#Comment_118842195

harmless · 31-03-2022 7:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118848935#Comment_118848935

He couldn't do that without forging your signature.

elperello · 31-03-2022 9:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118862726#Comment_118862726

True if he is a private individual but approved dealers can do it online with no need for a signature.

31-03-2022 10:03pm

Speeding, late property tax, late production of licence, multiple addresses, not sure who owns the car you were driving (in which case how can you be sure the owner gave you permission to drive), and you're not sure even now if you're insured to drive the car you were driving ? No harm, but you need someone to take care of your admin never mind your clients.

lawred2 · 31-03-2022 10:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118848326#Comment_118848326

How do you prove a negative though?

harmless · 01-04-2022 12:37am

How many points do you need for a driving ban with a full licnece?

Op was on 2 points, got 3 points for the speeding offence and got another 5 for no insurance. 0 points for not producing licnece as that was quashed. Total 10 points.

GSBellew · 01-04-2022 1:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118863986#Comment_118863986

You can be disqualified in court without having to rack up the 12 points to otherwise be automatically disqualified.

v240gltse · 01-04-2022 8:57am

how did you get on utmbuilder and hope all went well ?

Tippman24 · 01-04-2022 10:50am

The No Insurance Offence carries 5 Penalty Points and an automatic suspension on conviction in the Court.

Hotblack Desiato · 01-04-2022 1:09pm

But failure to produce is not the same as having no insurance.

It's ridiculous in this day and age that motorists and the gardai are relying on bits of paper to prove whether someone is insured or not.

The amount of court time wasted on this sort of nonsense (like the judge mentioned above banning everyone who didn't turn up, whether they were notified or not - did a single one of those bans stand up on appeal?) is insane.

Seth Brundle · 01-04-2022 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865619#Comment_118865619

It's ridiculous in this day and age that motorists and the gardai are relying on bits of paper to prove whether someone is insured or not.

To clarify, having the document does not even prove that you are insured but merely shows that when you took out the policy you were insured (but may have since cancelled the policy and not returned the paperwork).

utmbuilder · 03-04-2022 6:54pm

Got the details on the car it was not in my name. Fully insured to drive it. Confirmed by insurance company.

fully licensed, 3 points on my license from the speeding. 3 points in total now confirmed by NDLS

400 fine and ban was the outcome, it's been appealed. Judge advised it would be stuck out in circut court.

no ill will against the garda officer, hes traffic core and probably sees horrible things on a regular basis in his job

plus with all the oversight by the media its good to see them following up on everything. He must of asked me to

produce my insurance with the license and I didnt hear him.

Got a notice I was banned from driving and no idea why

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