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Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Had a quick look at the framework - it is pretty good and comprehensive. Clearly a considerable amount of thought and effort went into it.

    A good starting point for production of actual policies for civil service depts. Given the reasonably progressive culture in the CS, this might work out well.

    However I'm still pessimistic about the wider PS given the stone age mentality and toxic culture in many PS bodies. If senior people are determined to stop staff from wfh, a PS version of this framework won't deter them.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,679 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    I am interested to see how HR sections will actually enforce blended working and make sure people are coming into the office the agreed number of days. In my area staff are so spread out around different offices that I can easily see local management turning a blind eye to certain people not attending the office at all. It's already happening. Not everyone would have been on the clock before and I doubt that will change.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It won't be down to HR sections to enforce - it will be part of the HEO/AP/PO responsibility to ensure compliance within their areas.

    My department has been developing its policy since September 2021. All we were really waiting on was the offical framework from DPER that we had to work within, to finalise what the policy will become, so its already at an advanced stage.

    Have other Departments not been doing the same?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    No way will decisions be devolved to HEOs or APs in my office.

    They might on paper, but not in reality.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The HOF will be the decision maker. The HEOs / APs will monitor compliance with attendance patterns agreed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Yeah same here , ready to go . Just needed dper policy to form basis of



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,274 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I have heard same with regards revenue...large chunk of their staff still working from home full time



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    Same here. Hopefully we don't get an outbreak.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    The closer you are to the money, the less bullsh*t there is. Revenue doesn't have to justify its existence to anyone. Other PS bodies are much more about "trendy" nonsense and optics - glass palaces with staff typing away at their desks with no discernable benefit to the customer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,255 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato




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  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Caledonia


    I’m finding the mandatory 3 days a week in a lot, remembering how hot the office gets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 555 ✭✭✭laoisgem


    I was on AL on Monday, scheduled in for Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday and then there's an office meeting on Friday, getting really pissed off tch



  • Registered Users Posts: 16 SpiderSpider


    Do you guys get to choose the 3 days you attend or are you given set days with no input from staff regarding what suits them best?



  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Caledonia


    Get asked the previous week, you usually get them but not necessarily if other team members pick them too. Roster is done up.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Is Revenue back in the office yet? Starting in Cork soon, thanks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 happyWednesday


    I have two good friends in revenue Dublin, they are full-time remote still. One goes in a day a week by choice. From what I hear they are probably one of the better flexible depts to get, even things like parental, term time etc. I don't know about outside Dublin though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 happyWednesday


    I have two good friends in revenue Dublin, they are full-time remote still. One goes in a day a week by choice. From what I hear they are probably one of the better flexible depts to get, even things like parental, term time etc. I don't know about outside Dublin though.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thank you, that sounds very promising.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,547 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    I have a friend in a Revenue office in Dublin and they aren't asked to go in at all and he doesn't expect to be asked to return anytime soon.


    They are a completely paperless office with no public counter etc so that might make a difference.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I know the Cork office does have a public counter alright so that might make a difference, thanks very much.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Revenue are definitely one of the more progressive offices. Obviously if there are public counters, people will need to be rostered to staff them, and Customs is hands on at ports, but otherwise they've been to the forefront in facilitating remote working and it seems to have really worked there. No pun intended.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Sixofone


    Does anyone on here have experience of the Dept of Children and their (current) wfh policy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Caledonia


    Revenue cut down to a half day phone service during Covid, maybe right or wrong. I don’t know why. But I remember answering our phones all day and helping people who couldn’t get thru to them and thinking, am I some eejit. In fairness they were v responsive on email.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That can't last. It sounds extremely messy.

    How could anyone plan childcare around that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭Icbaby


    Talking to others in different departments the answer to that is you plan childcare as if you are working from the office everyday. That was the general concensus when it was discussed at several meetings across a range of departments I believe. It wasn’t being mean but there will be a rollout form for everyone working from home to fill in and you can bet you need to tick a box to say that you have adequate childcare to allow you to work from home.

    the pandemic is over, the working from home to take care of children because they can’t be in school etc will not observed anymore I would imagine.

    It’s something brought up on every forum, every meeting, every conversation.

    Again I’m not being smart/mean about this I’m just pointing out what has been said. Basically if you work 40 hours a week you will need to plan for childcare for that time.

    and I really think to make that point some depts will not give set days so you can’t arrange part time childcare.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    One of the huge benefits of WFH is not commuting and not having to juggle and arrange childcare for that time. If employers decide to implement hybrid working in a haphazard manner (e.g. constantly arranging in office meetings at the last minute on days that are supposed to be work from home days) then they might as well just have everyone in the office full time.

    No reasonable employee would expect to be able to look after young children during actual work time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    Christ almighty. It's almost as if they want staff to go look for jobs elsewhere.

    A parent might need childcare before school starts and after it finishes because of a work commute.

    The addiction to bureaucratic ways of thinking and working is obviously hard to shake. After two years of cold turkey during COVID we're back off the wagon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭HartsHat



    The nature of serious jobs usually means that you can't plan exactly what days you're in all the time as you have external stakeholders. I

    t's impossible to say that you'll never have anything in person on a Wednesday, say, because what if you have an external conference, a stakeholder coming to meet the Minister in person on that day, in front of an Oireachtas Committee, in the Dáil on legislation, travelling to a meeting in Brussels etc., Etc.,

    Therefore the idea you can be inflexibly unavailable to work from your office on set days is simply off the wall stuff.

    We have two set days in our office but with the understanding we might need to he in any of the other days if business needs require (which they usually do).



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 CivilServantCP


    This should be all left locally, with an option to appeal if you feel you're being treated unfairly. After 2 years now of remote working, most managers understand the lay of the land and can make rational calls themselves with their staff depending on the staff's circumstances and sections business requirements. No need for detached senior management or central HR to be involved initially. Can we try and respect people as adults maybe.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    The nature of serious jobs is that you need to be seriously organised. Sure things will pop up from time to time, but it needs to be planned.

    In the recent past most of the POs setting Civil Service policy in DPER were on reduced and/or family friendly working patterns. At certain times of the week they were not available, or only available remotely.

    You'd also be surprised how many senior managers are engaged in formal education programmes which take them out of the office for set days every week.

    Therefore the idea that you can't have structure and have to remain nearly 'on call' to come in is off the wall.



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