Did the USA play a significantly negative role in events leading to Ukraine invasion?

I made my point. I don't 'know' this. I may be right I may be wrong. But I don't believe the difference in language is accidental or lazy. What is lazy though is your thinking that it certainly is accidental or lazy or just means nothing. It is the laziness in the thinking of people who are easily manipulated.

"Every time a civilian gets killed we hear about it"

?

They can't count the dead everywhere in Mariupol, the city is under siege and there have been bodies rotting in the streets in certain areas, it's unknown how many are trapped under rubble which hasn't been cleared yet. In some situations they can count the bodies, in others they can't.

Dead/civilians/people - the semantics of reporting doesn't matter, why you are getting hung up on that is bizarre.

It's the same logic we see in things like the Sandy Hook hoax conspiracy theory.

Theories have to rely on and invent these cryptic clues to support their point cause they don't have anything else.

The theory that calamari has to be suggesting here is that western media (all western media presumably) are trying to lie about the event. Western media is trying to claim that all of the people in the building were all civilians and there weren't any soldiers using the building that would justify Russia attacking it.

But then for some reason they can't just outright lie and say "civilians". So instead they leave this little clue that makes the whole conspiracy obvious to internet detectives.

This all sounds a lot cooler and more impressive when you present it as a vague open ended question like CalamariFritti4 did.

When it's all laid out in the open like this though it's clear why the argument is silly.

While I don’t believe the figure of Russian forces killed is accurate. Think the decision to not opt for total war has placed Russian forces at greater risk and the losses potentially are still likely high.. Unlike western pundits (forum users like yourself) state this is a Russian military failure and army very very bad, they don't seem to get this not just another country to Russia. There attacking Ukraine a brother nation of Russia. Despite some genuine horrors are happening ( not deny) Russia does not want to conquer a place of ruins. Russian military attitude towards Ukraine has to be looked at differently here and most are not. Russia invaded Poland you would notice an entirely different war strategy by Russia

Russia is not opting for total war yet ( say yet as facts can change at any moment) I’m pointing out, and another person has most of the Ukraine cities near the coast and Russian border- south and east is currently surrounded since the first week of the war. Russia has decided to not carpet bomb or shells it nonstop, there is no blitz taking place at all. There be thousands of noncombatants killed every hour if Russia undertook total war against Ukraine.

Putin says his aim was to get rid of Neo nazis units besieging Russian rebels inside Ukraine and to Demilitarise the Ukraine army fighting in Donbas. Russia seems to do those things but due in course to western censorship, we cannot tell how fragile the Ukraine army is after 30 days of battle. How many of the aims are now achieved by Russia? The fog of war exists in this war unlike no other. Only by the battle maps, we can tell the progress of each army and so far only Russia making advances even if the advances have slowed down compared first two weeks of the war. 

You don't believe 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust. There's many things you conveniently choose not to "believe" that are integral to whatever narrative you're randomly supporting at the time.

Putin says his aim is to stop the genocide of millions in Ukraine, his words, what genocide? (note how you carefully leave this stuff out)

He says he is there so stop them getting nuclear weapons, what nuclear weapons?

He says he is there to stop the Nazi leadership of Ukraine, it's a democratic country with a Jewish leader, what Nazi leadership?

It's all just BS so he can invade and either control the country or turn it into a vassal state. You are only here to selectively regurgitate his talking points because they so closely mirror your own world views.

Again cheerful. You are a holocaust denier.

It can be turned around, and you can't address it. So how can the argument be valid? It can't simultaneously be used to show both claims?#

It's not valid because your personal, incredulity doesn't mean anything. It had no bearing on what's actually true or not.

You don't believe that the Russian army is capable of targeting civilians. Cool. You're not an expert in Russia politics or military culture. You're not a reporter who's actually there researching. You're not one of the civilians who was attacked. You are not a Russian soldier. You are some rando on the internet repeating crap he's read off twitter. Why would what you want to believe match anything in reality?

And no, you are grasping at false clues like the conspiracy theorists who believe Sandy Hook was a hoax.

You made the claim that western media was specifically using "people" rather than "civilians." You won't support this claim. You won't actually outline your arguments in clear terms. You are hiding behind clever sounding vagaries because you're trying to hide how silly your argument is.

You don't have any good reason to believe that the Russians aren't targeting civilians. You have to invent these layered conspiracy theories to explain away the attacks on civilians. You have to claim that the Ukrainians are secretly using the civilians as cover or are committing these attacks themselves or that they are outright faking them. Then you have to claim that ALL western media are involved in this conspiracy and will go along with it. But then at the same time they keep leaving clues for folks like yourself to find.

And you're claiming all of this is far more likely than you just don't have a good understanding of the situation.

Yea. Conspiracy theory thinking in a nutshell there.

I'm also curious, Dohnjoe has pointed to some instances where the Russian military has engaged in similar tactics before and recently. Do you believe that these instances are also faked?

And remember he only ever questions the Jewish numbers. And refers to "Jewish historians".

I'm sure that's nothing to be suspicious about at all...

Indeed with thousands of journalists, reporters, independents, freelancers, analysts all using their own language it's a very strange point to nitpick about

The Soviet Union purportedly lost 20 million of its people during the course of WW2. I can’t verify that number if it's legit could be up or down. What makes the tragedy less important? Fixation about one people's horrors during the war is annoying. Russian women/children got abused and raped, got burned alive and got shot and thrown onto unmarked graves just like the Jewish people. My problem is with Nazis everywhere who think white people have a unique master race right to run the world. That’s what you don't see here Dohnjoe the white nationalists who enlisted and joined the Ukraine National Militia and Azov and other groups are extremists and if you denying Russia claim there are no neo nazis in Ukraine you supporting the delusion. They proudly share their views at rallies and on the battlefield with salutes and show off their NAZI replica gear all fact.

Putin rebuffed Wagner in Syria!! Would Putin not back his private army?. In one event they got attacked by US forces in Syria, big story, 300 or so of them allegedly died during an operation.Others say the number is higher.

Does not seem Putin cares a lot about his privately backed army?. There is very little evidence Wagner is overrun by nazis. Got spotty evidence a few representatives may uphold the views and there's a dodgy photograph of a supposed leader having nazi tattoos. That image highly suspect since only appeared on the internet on March 2022 ( when Russian invades Ukraine) it looks like a plant as a way of dismissing Putin claims that Ukraine had a neo nazi issue. Azov fighting with the regular army of Ukraine. I never seen Wagner embedded with the Russian army, have you?

Speaking of the Soviet Union, with the Holocaust you didn't challenge any of the estimated number of Soviet POWs killed though did you. Nor any of the other groups or minorities killed. Only the Jewish figures. Which you dramatically reduced (amid your claims that the "Jews exaggerated it"). So all your virtue signalling about "fixation" is hypocritical to say the least, very disturbing at most.

Speaking of fixation, whether it's this conflict, or 9/11 or JFK or whatever, you are fixated on "Nazi's" being behind it all, which is ironic considering your above views.

I would have thought a conspiracy theorist, of all people, would have been against a shadowy totalitarian power that silences critics, murders opposition, criminalises free press, violates human rights and carries out all sorts of horrendous acts. But here you are supporting one, and endlessly parroting it's propaganda about the war and the run up to it.

So...known Holocaust deniers trying to paint Russians as just out for a stroll. What's any of this got to do with USA playing a significantly negative role?

Need to defend and justify what the Russians are doing before trying to explain how America is actually to blame.

We bring up the fact that Cheerful is a holocaust denier because it shows that he is extremely ignorant and/or extremely biased, so his unsupported opinions about world history, politics, military strategy are all clearly nonsense.

And it also shows that his claimed concerns about secret nazis are entirely disingenuous and/or hypocritical.

He keeps posting his rants because he doesn't understand that his views are not taken seriously and are very embarrassing to the Putin apologists and conspiracy theorists.

In the first and second Gulf war, Iraqi cities fell quickly and the Iraqi military didn't put up much fight. When Putin's forces went into Crimea in 2014, they met with minimal resistance from the Ukrainian forces stationed there. When the Taliban went into Afghanistan last year, the country collapsed quickly, mostly without a fight.

It's very obvious that the Russians gambled on expecting much the same. In the first few days it looked like it might go that way, they captured Chernobyl, landed paratroopers in Hostomel, they got to the outskirts of Kyiv, they started encircling Ukraine's second largest city Kharkiv. The problem is that their forces are pretty woeful, Zelensky and the Ukrainian leadership didn't flee and the Ukrainians have put up a hell of a fight.

So now they have had to retreat from the capital, put out the usual spin and PR that it's not really a retreat and instead focus on what they can take and hold.

Like Putin, you have a foaming-at-the-mouth hatred for the Americans, okay, but keep in mind the US military has been very busy in the last decades, with wars and conflicts. Whatever your beliefs about them, they are good at war.

The Russians on the other hand haven't conducted a proper combined arms operations invasion since the 1940's. They might have some shiny hardware, but combined arms is fiendishly complex, and when you have conscript level soldiers, who are paid worse than the Ukrainians, who have low morale and many of whom think they are on a training exercise, yeah it's not the best start.

The Russian military will adapt, they'll learn, but it's very obvious none of this is going the way they wanted. At this stage they'll be lucky to hold some portion of the south (remember they only really control roads and arteries, leaving themselves constantly susceptible to ambush) and perhaps make some gains in Donbas if they throw the kitchen sink at it.