Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Solar for Beginners [ask your questions here]

Options
1457910109

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    On the tank no changes required its the same as turning your existing immersion on but using power from the panels instead of from the grid.

    I can't answer the EV question on how to set a preference as I don't have an EV charger but I am sure other posters here will know. I think though priority could be set if you are using a myenergi system with the eddi and zappi.



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭Liam2021


    OK so when the system is producing power, can I tell the system to Heat the water, charge the storage battery or send it to the car. My head is wrecked with all the questions from the other half.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay



    I can't give you the answer unfortunately. In my setup the PV system runs the house first and any excess goes to the storage batteries. If there is excess from that the eddi detects this via the CT clamp as it sees excess to the grid and feeds that back to the immersion.

    Do you have a Zappi charger as that might change how you can divert the extra power so other posters can advise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    From what I understand and thsts minimal.

    If you have an eddi and a zappi, the zappi gets the excess first.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Generally with a hybrid inverter (the most common around, does solar and battery combined)

    I'm going to use a eddi (immersion controller) and the zappi (ev charge point) both from the same company, they work together.

    The batteries are filled first.

    Then when the batteries either can't charge any faster or finished charging the eddi will start to take the excess and put it into hot water.

    If the excess exceeds 1.4kw then the zappi takes over and charges the car.

    When the excess drops below 1.4 it will stop charging the car and resume heating the water

    If the car isn't plugged in, it will just heat the water.

    If the water is hot and car isn't plugged in, it's just exported.

    The zappi and eddi priority can be set in the myenergie app.

    *You can have a separate storage inverter and that can then be managed priority wise with the eddi and zappi too, but generally with a hybrid battery gets filled first as the myenergie can't see it.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭Liam2021


    Thanks for that. I have an eo mini so from what you say it won't send the excess power to the car? Or is there a way I can set this to be a priority?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    The eo mini to my knowledge doesn't do it. Some people just just the granny cable and do it manually.

    I think the pro can do it. But not sure.

    What both the eddi and zappi have is sensors that can detect when power is being exported and then sets the power according. That is how it does it's priority.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,932 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    I have both, you can drag and drop via the App which takes priority.

    I've had EDDI priority since late last year, nice and sunny today so dragged Zappi as first priority, only takes couple of seconds

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭con747


    A friend was offered a 5kw hybrid inverter but on checking the inverter model Solis F5 is 3.6kw, so was asking me if I knew if that was how inverters are classed, as in 3.5kw can handle up to 5kw generation and 5kw can handle 7.5kw and so on? It's something I am unsure of if anyone can let me know if he's being offered a pup.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    An inverter typically will only "suck down" for lack of better words up to it's maximum rating. So if you have a 3kw inverter and you have 5Kw in panels, it doesn't matter if your panels are producing 3.5Kw or 5kw, it will only draw down 3Kw. You can (in theory) have waaay more generation capacity than your inverter, but the typical realistic limit is about 50%, if your going above that.....you are probably wasting panel generation. i.e. you've bought panels and your just wasting money on those panels.

    Sizing the panels 30-50% more than the inverter is about the limit.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭con747


    Ok, so if he is being sold a Solis F5 3.6kw it can handle 5kw, but would that be classed as a 5kw inverter price wise or is he being offered a 3.6kw at a 5kw discounted price if you know what I mean?

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Nahh, your looking at it wrong. You can hook up at 3.6Kw inverter to 20Kwp or 50Kwp (in theory), but it will still only suck down 3.6Kw. The rating of the inverter is the max amount it will manage. The size of the panels that you hook it up to is in some respects irrelevant. Saying it will handle 5Kw, is not really true - it won't break it, but it doesn't "handle it" if you know what I mean.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    It's a 3.6kW inverter. If he is being sold it as a 5kW inverter, he is being cheated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    I can't recall where I read it, but something I read stated inverters are best working close to their max capacity rather than having a big inverter with spare capacity. So depending on panels and efficency you may have 5kw of them, but they may only be generating at best 3.5kw which is the inverter working at full tilt



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭con747


    I get what your saying, so I can tell him he's being offered a 3.6 kw inverter not a 5kw so, even though I think there's only a couple hundred of a price difference when new from what I can see.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    This may have been true in the past but is not strictly true now. Modern inverter are very efficient from about 15-20% capacity onwards. One a 3.5kW inverter is getting over 700kW input it is doing a good job. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Efficiency-curve-of-various-solar-inverters_fig8_258220930



  • Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭idc


    Are you sure about that, inverters have a minimum and a maximum voltage thus you can't exactly install as many panels as you want ? My 5Kw inverter with the panels I have I could attach 12 to each MPPT which would be 7.8 Kwp but beyond that i would exceed the max voltage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger



    Absolutely, your right idc.....however, I didn't want to "confuse" the question at hand. I was just making the point that the wattage of the panels that your hooking the inverter up to is irrelevant.

    Most inverters operate to a max of 600v , and with most panels having an open circuit voltage of 40-45V that would mean that you can have 12 (540v) or maybe 13 (585v) panels on a string assuming an OC voltage of 45V. But it's not what was being asked, which was "that 3.6Kw inverter can handle 5kw so it's a 5kw inverter then?"

    It's not.

    (I didn't want to get into the whole voltage thing as it's probably more information than con747 wanted :-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭con747


    Post #194 from @garo is what I needed to know. Maybe I wasn't clear with the question, thanks for the replies all.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭mag


    I have a solar system being installed soon -> 8.1kw panels / 5kw puredrive battery / 6kw Solis Hybrid Inverter / Zappi

    One thing im confused about, and excuse my total ignorence here - i see on the Zappi specs that its rated power is 7kW (1 phase) or 22kW (3 phase).

    Im assuming that the 6kw Solis is 3 phase... does that mean the power in my home needs to be 3 phase too? Its an old-ish house ~1980...



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Unless you have three phase in the house (rare), the Solis Hybrid and the Zappi you'll be getting will be single phase. The three phase Zappi, while looking identical to the single phase Zappi is different internally and more expensive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Not really solar, but - if I decide down the line to buy a turbine, is there a second port to connect this to the inverter or is a completely different setup?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Depends on the turbine. Most are AC, but some have a bridge rectifier in them to convert to DC, but voltages and what not are most likely different. You're best best is to isolate it onto it's own inverter. Wind turbines also need a "dump load" facility. They aren't like solar panels where the inverter will only draw down what it needs. Turbines generate energy and that energy has to "go somewhere". Normally it's a battery of course, but if the battery is full, then usually there's a resistive coil that it heats up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    The resistive coil can be in the hot water cylinder?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Its a completely separate setup, With its own inverter and controller.

    If you are anyway interested in wind, get a weather station that you can log data from, and then see what you get from that first.

    (also the turbines are usually 3 phase AC, of variable voltage, That is then rectified to DC and then onto wherever you need it to go



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭markpb


    What happens to the excess electricity generated in this case? Does it get exported to the grid or just vanish into thin air? :-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    What happens to the excess electricity generated in this case? Does it get exported to the grid or just vanish into thin air? :-)

    The language here is confusing I know, but the answer is "nothing happen" as it's never created to begin with. This is different from say a wind turbine where the energy is created and you need to do something with that energy or "bad things" will happen with the motor/turbine. The Solar panels inverter will only grab what it needs up to it's limit, and there is no "lost" energy as the energy is only created up to the inverters capacity.

    I say "no energy is lost" and that's confusing. The energy isn't created, but if you had a bigger inverter, then yes, you could argue the energy is "lost" in that regards.

    Perhaps a video can explain it better than I can ?

    (1817) Solar Clipping Explained - YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 32 burgerland


    Hi

    Looking at installing Solar over the next few months and got loads of great information here on Boards but still have a couple of questions. In the above example, whilst the inverter can only draw down 3Kw, can it divert any excess above the 3Kw to the battery as they are on the DC side or is this just wasted? I understand if you generate 3Kw and only consume 2.5Kw in your home then the excess .5Kw can be diverted to battery, hot water or exported to the grid. If the excess is wasted, are the main advantages of oversizing 1. getting the most from your inverter and 2. compensating for poorer generating conditions in the Winter months?

    If I install panels on the house is it possible to expand the array by fitting extra panels on the shed(south facing and 6 metres from house). The inverter and all other component's would be setup in the house. Can a DC cable be run from the shed into the house?

    The house has a hipped roof with the larger sides on a north/south axis so I would assume south facing is the way to go. I could fit a smaller number of panels on both east and west ends of the house so would it make sense to spread the array across all 3 sides or does this come solely down to household usage times - our peak usage is typical morning and evening? I think I could fit 3.5Kw on the south side with 1.5Kw on east and west. I don't have any shading issues except in the evening when the sun is S/W and casts a shadow from the chimney onto the south side of the roof (minimal).



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    can it divert any excess above the 3Kw to the battery as they are on the DC side or is this just wasted? 

    You can think of the inverter rating as the max flow rate of a pipe. So if you have a 3kw inverter then that's the maximum amount that can flow through the inverter to <somewhere>. That somewhere can be the house, a battery, out to the grid ....the inverter doesn't care where it goes. It's a good question about the "DC side" that it doesn't have to "invert" (for lack of a better word), and it could put into the battery, but sadly it does need to do work on it. The solar panels operate at 100's of volts, and this needs to be changed down to 50v or so to charge the battery. So it's included in that 3Kw limit. I wouldn't get too bogged down on inverter sizes. Most people get a 5Kw of 6Kw inverter. It's like €150 for a 6Kw over a 5Kw. When you are paying €8-10K on an installation, this is small fry.

    You sort of answered your own question there about the oversizing. In reality you rarely get 100% of your production capacity. So if you have 5Kwp in panels, even on a sunny day (due to angles of the sun hitting the panels, the temperature, etc) you might be getting 80% of the maximum generation capacity (or 4Kw generated), so if you had 6Kwp in panels and you were getting the same 80% performance, now your up to 4.8Kw. So you (typically) have more panel capacity than the inverter size.

    Yes, in theory you could do that with the shed. Bear in mind that inverters usually have 2x "input sources" or strings, and the panels on a string normally need to be aligned the same way. So if you install panels on two of your main house roofs, then you won't have a spare empty input source for your shed roof. There are inverters which take 3x input sources, but they are rare.

    You'd have to work with your installer a bit on the roof/panel layout, but provisionally, you want the bulk of your panels on the south roof. If you are early morning energy users, then yeah it makes sense to utilize the east roof, and vice versa, if you use more power in the evening, then the west roof. Going back to the previous point, you only have 2x input sources usually, so you'lll have to pick 2 roofs. There are way around that, but it's non-standard and I'll leave that up to yuor supplier to run through as it's complicated to explain.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭cloughy


    lots of good information, but have the following questions, as some of the quotes given include a battery and some say not needed,

    if getting quotes with and without a battery, what should the reduction in price be for without a battery, just to be able to compare like with like, but also evaluate whether battery is cost effective,

    if you have are not getting a battery is the inverter cheaper, or should you look for a battery ready one, to maybe add a battery in the future when maybe more cost effective, or are all inverters capable of hooking up a battery at a later stage.

    Thanks all



Advertisement