What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

I suppose we could start with him withdrawing from the Open Skies agreement giving russia a free hand in Ukraine.

bad? very bad you mean. and those policies were in place before covid so that is not an excuse. Denying citizenship to those who put their lives on the line for the country is inexcusable. The GOP and Trump claimed to support the military. how is that supporting the military?

prevent, no. that was not the intention of opens skies but you know that already.

"Definitely a fair point that he had both houses for 2 years. My memory of it is that they made some progress on it but given how big a project it was, it needed a lot more than 2 years to design, plan and begin construction on something that big (essentially half the length of America)."

That is giving him a huge pass on this. He campaigned on building the wall and Mexico paying for it. What you are saying is that he was not capable enough to understand the task and couldn't follow it through when he was in power. That is the reality of it. I could campaign on saying I would make everyone a millionaire, but because I tried to do it, i deserve the credit. The border issue is extremely complex and he hadn't a clue what he was doing.

You haven't addressed the facts, that are;

1) He (according to you) didn't grasp what was involved

2) He didn't build the wall

3) He campaigned that he would make Mexico pay for it, and he didn't

4) Moreover, his associate Bannon swindled his supporters out money from people like you who wanted it built.

NONE OF THAT is the Democrats fault.

"As for how effective it is, there was one hilarious incident with the reporter Jim Acosta where he showed up at a stretch of newly constructed wall, attempting to show it doesn't work but inadvertently proving it's effectiveness."

There are also clips of people flying over the wall, proving it didn't work.

We had a poster on here for months telling us that the wall was being built when it wasn't. I have no truck with CNN, but singling them out for bullshitting when FOX, OAN etc are doing it on a much more egregious scale.

"There was a calm scene, nobody around. Law. Order."

I'm not entirely sure whether that last part is an indication that Trump was a law and order president. If it was, I don't have enough hours in the day to debunk that.

"Tell me, if Trump proposed a stop and track policy, how do you think Democrats would respond to that? In all honesty, they would be linking it to slavery no doubt."

Now, what this is telling me is that no matter what the Democrats say, you will slate it. That, coupled with mentions of left leaning media, hunter biden etc really doesn't add credibility to your posts. That's not a personal attack, it is an overexaggeration that doesn't help your argument.

"His policies didn't work because his personality was such that he could not make a deal with the Democrats."

He did do deals. Reasonable deals were made on budgets etc.

He campaigned on being a deal maker, the best deal maker ever. He promised to make people wealthy, because incompetent politicians couldn't do the job.. but he could. Tell me, how did that go? Are you telling me, again, that he bit off more than he could chew?

"I get that they cannot be seen to be working constructively with him..."

Again, they did do deals with him.

"The Democrats were as obstructive to him as the Republicans were to Obama initially. Just disgusting."

If that's true, which it isn't, did you post on here having a go at McConnell et al while they relished in obstructing Obama at every turn?

"Where I would criticise him is the braggadocio around getting "Mexico to pay" for it. Fantasy land stuff."

Hang on. This is not a victimless statement. He promised to make Mexico pay for it and took it from tax payer money. That's more than just an empty promise.

"He is not without fault, absolutely."

Agreed

"But people voted as much for his policies, and to go against Hillary, and less so because they endorsed every facet of his personality."

And there is the but.

You mentioned people forgiving Churchill for his flaws. That's a fair point. So tell me, on what basis could Trump's "achievements" in any way compare or balance the scale of his flaws? The only way that it could, in your or anyone else's book, would be if you don't see Trump's flaws in the same way others do because in terms of what he achieved, there is a pitiful amount, so few in fact I cannot make a list.

So far, you have excused Trump saying Mexico would pay for the wall as braggadocio, mentioned left leaning media, had a swipe at CNN, mentioned Hunter Biden's laptop, denied that Trump helped Putin out, blamed the democrats on Trump's failings and sought to minimise January 6th and Trump's involvement in it.

Let's stick to immigration.

How do you square Trump's anti-immigration policy with hiring illegal immigrants?

Again, the point being discussed is on what basis you think Trump should be voted for by anyone. Plenty of negatives have been pointed out, some of which you have acknowledged, so on that basis what is the reason that you to vote for him.

For myself, I do not see anything at all that would negate the clear evidence that he is simply not suitable for the job, and actually there is plenty of reason to believe that he might actually be damaging to the US as a whole. Sure you can pass of the insurrection as a joke, a few mindless yokels getting lost and a bit goofed up on red bull and making a nuisance, but the more evidence we see and hear, the missing phone logs, the situation room in the hotel, the SCOtUS wife texting the COS, Trump calling the people brave and patriots. Trump certainly didn't believe this was a joke, he praised those taking part.

But it happened, under his watch. He led the US to a situation where for the 1st time ever in its history, the democratic wish of the people was attempted to be overturned by the minority. That seems like quite a risky avenue to go down and, whether you blame Trump for it or not, there is the very real possibility that were he to be voted in again it would happen again.

I just cannot see what potential upside there is to voting for Trump that would warrant taking on such a risk.

the only future he is concerned with is his own. how anybody think he was suitable to be president is beyond me.

and there we have it. you only care about entertainment and "owning the libs". you don't give a fig about policies. You certainly don't understand them. thank you for clarifying that you are not capable of a serious discussion.

The last four years have shown Trump to be the very worst option by far. Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden are fairly standard career politicians and that's actually a good thing.

Would you hire a horse trainer to redo the electrics in your house because you hired bad electricians in the past? That's exactly what's wrong with Trump and everyone who voted for him.

It was basically a case of "hey, vote for me, I haven't got a Bollocks clue what I'm doing, what have you got to lose?"

And when it turned out that having a clue about your job, being able to wheel and deal, getting on with people and getting them onboard with your plan are important skills that Trump didn't possess, most normal, decent, intelligent people turned away from him.

There are still people who seem to say "no wait, vote him in again, I wanna see how badly he can fcuk this up".

The world is not reality TV. Having skills and experience counts. Politics is not Dancing with the Stars and never should be. Most Yanks have forgotten that because their brains are rotten from reality TV.