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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    That's because of Covid, those jobs are now being taken by Indian contract workers with companies getting grants from state agencies to do so. Limited rights and no room to complain.

    Discretionary spending has dried up, pubs and restaurants that were closed by Covid will be closing again as people won't have any spare cash to spend in them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    You mean the communist utopia of the "" Green New Deal" 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,786 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    How often has it to be explained to you, even with data provided, that renewables are presently not a dependable reliable source of energy to meet demand, and will not be for many years to come. There is no magic jump from where we are now to 100% reliable renewables by using just unreliable renewables.

    With all the time you spend on here that penny at least should have dropped by now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,786 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    looks to be of questionable viability and would take quite a while to get up and running anyway even if it was a viable deposit which i'm sure if it was it would be up and running years ago.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭Nermal


    All undoable at the stroke of a pen DaCor.

    The general public are indeed in favour of making the right noises, but only so long as it doesn't cost them too much.

    When the true impact on their living standards becomes apparent, the pressure on the Government to overturn, fudge or frustrate this stuff will become irresistable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    renewables when there is a mix of them are reliable as they all back each other up when each other goes through their weaknesses meaning the others have their strengths.

    the issue at the moment is that we are focusing on 1 or 2 forms of renewable energy meaning the mix isn't reliable but that doesn't change the fact that gas wherever we get it is going to be expensive and why we need to move away from it as quickly as we can.

    renewables are the only inexpensive option to do that, there is just no way around the expensive gas option and gas whoever we get it from is at the mercy of that supplier.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    You do wonder where the magically money is going to come from to pay for this pie in the sky stuff. There is only so much taxing people will accept especially when the so called green initatives benefit the more affluent in society.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    What previous green projects are you referring to?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    This energy crisis is a combination of factors that have been building for 2 decades and all come to head starting with the Covid lockdowns. One of the consequences is problems in integrated circuit production where the parts are not being produced or production runs are terminated and products are end of life. The spare parts are not being made and any available on the market are expensive and have much longer delivery times. This means that a modern tractor or car that needs repair may be out of service until the proprietary parts can be got. Without an operational tractor the field cannot be planted or harvested.

    Another problem supply chains are breaking, if farmers cannot get feed (e.g. grain) for cattle in time, they have no choice but to sell the animals much sooner than expected. Natural gas is used to make nitrogen fertiliser, even before the war demand for gas outstripped supply and the price doubled, the reason for the supply/price imbalance was due to an extended cold Spring in Europe and a Summer with low wind that ran down gas supplies. Eveyone needed to go into the market at once to build up supplies for Winter resulting in price rises. Fertiliser is expensive and scarce, Farmers have to re-evaluate their planting and provisioning decisions and reduce their inputs, meaning their outputs are reduced and it is uneconomic to grow certain foods, i.e. no production and less employment (a lot of farming work is seasonal). This eventually translates to empty shelves.

    No money, no debt can help when the goods are not being produced, you end up with is the classic too much money chasing too few goods. The cost of living keeps rising, people can no longer afford to work for previous wages, they either get a pay rise or they stop working, migrate or change jobs. The cost of production keeps rising. Cost pressures mean business must do more with less, i.e. workforce reduction or substitution with automation or outsourcing. Green policies are just one aspect of a multifaceted problem built around energy scarcity and exploding debt.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    I was listening to the Green leader responding to Pearce Doherty's proposal to lower the vat and other measures in response to the 24%gas hikes yesterday. Ryan is definitely on another planet and hasn't a clue about the affect on normal working people. Or perhaps he just doesn't give a toss. Anyhow it's embarrassing listening to him waffle nonsense.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As I said, won't happen

    Even SF, with their collection of knuckle-draggers, nutjobs and anti-science folks, know they would have virtually no support for a rollback. Its why they've become more and more quiet on the topic over time, instead focusing on the hit to the pocket which is fair enough. They'll look for pressure to be eased on the pocket but won't look for a halt to climate action plans



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A breakdown of some of the costs on a typical Irish electric bill and whats behind some of those costs




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,125 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    renewables when there is a mix of them are reliable as they all back each other up when each other goes through their weaknesses meaning the others have their strengths.

    the issue at the moment is that we are focusing on 1 or 2 forms of renewable energy

    What other forms of renewables are actually viable to fill the gap in this country?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭jolivmmx


    Chu didn’t get the senate yesterday. I think that it is a good boding of things to come for the Greens.

    Are there many Greens in elected positions at present? What are they doing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    From that article by a solar panel salesman.

    Promoting renewables will drive electricity prices lower. However, if we do not address the factors within our control, that transition will cost Ireland more than it should. That is not sustainable and is unfair on vast swathes of society. Ireland can do so much better.


    Conall Bolger is chief executive of the Irish Solar Energy Association

    The more random energy is put in the grid the more expensive electricity becomes, look at Denmark and Germany. The reason is the balancing costs AND you need a to maintain a reserve of reliable generation plant and fuel for the frequent times wind and solar do not perform. The reserve generation does not go down as wind and solar increase, plus the fuel reserve actually goes up because the loss of wind and solar is bigger.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    The point is that with our own reserves of natural gas PLUS Liquid Natural Gas which can be secured from a number of sources means we have much greater security and reliability of supply than IF we solely depend on one single pipipeline as at present

    But more importantly Brokenangel has never been correct yet 😅



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Might want to dig a bit deeper into Denmarks plans for the future, they are going to be a MASSIVE exporter of surplus power in a few years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,786 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    This has been brought up on here before and shown to be a non runner.

    What other renewables do we have in Ireland apart from wind and solar that will be ready to go when corrib runs out in 2025?

    When we get a high pressure system in winter, there will be little to no wind and barely any solar.

    The big hope is green hydrogen via electrolysis using excess renewable energy, which won’t happen until way after 2030.

    This is what the few on here can’t get their heads around, there is no option, other than fossil fuel (gas) until we get a green hydrogen storage option up and running.

    If we don’t develop our own gas resources then that means depending on the UK allowing gas to enter the Irish Grid.

    This is the state of play and whatever else you say can’t get away from this fact.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Nope. The independent survey shows that Barryroe contains large reserves of natural gas and oil. The company have stated just last month that they plan to proceed with an appraisal well at the field in 2023 (this is last step before extraction) subject to ministerial approval, which could pave the way first production in 2026. The main thing which is now seems to be holding up the final phase is Mr Ryans stonewalling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    What. .they have discovered the secret to beating the shortcomings of random energy?. They have not. You can see the output from the Danish system on a daily basis here. Denmark is heavily reliant on Norway (Hydro power) and Sweden (Nuclear/Hydro) for balancing its grid. The consequence for Norwegian consumers has been increasing electricity costs and Norwegian surplus is running out, coincidently by 2026.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Are the stipends from Gasprom regular or does Putin turn of the taps randomly ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,786 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Jesus.

    You are an absolute melt 😂🤦‍♂️.

    I knew you were a WUM.

    You haven’t answered a damn thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The reality is we do not have a mix of renewables that are reliable, and it will be a long long time before we do if all we are concentrating on is wind and solar, so it is going to be a long long time before we can move away from natural gas. Gas is indeed now scarce in the E.U. due to a war, but that does not negate the fact that we need it and will continue to need it so where is the logic behind the Green party seeking to ban LNG and Ryan refusing to meet a company to even discuss the possibility of us having untapped reserves of our own ?

    Does that muppet, like some of his supporters here, believe that we can go from where we are now too reliable, dependable 100% renewable energy in one magic leap ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Strange advice from someone the post wasn`t even addressed to.

    If people weren`t posting needless "advice" and incorrect claims I wouldn`t feel the need to reply. So in essence you are addressing the wrong poster. That is unless you believe incorrect statements should not be challenged ?

    I can see how that would make life easier for some here alright.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Have you been over-indulging on the sherry again ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Looks like all those cheap solar panals so loved by Europeans and manufactured in factories power by Chinese coal and/or with slave labour could well be a thing of the past.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Christ, the hypocrisy of greens is truly mind boggling.

    It`s fine where it suits their agenda that their beloved solar panels are manufactured using energy from coal burning plants from a country that is one of the worlds top CO2 emitters, who are building over 30 more such plants, who have one of the worst humanitarian record, even to the extent they are now using slave labour to manufacture those beloved solar panels.

    They are also fast off the mark when it comes to telling us about our commitments and fines we will suffer from the E.U. if we do not comply with their wishes, yet have the gall to tell us we should not touch LNG that the E.U. has no problem with while ignoring that we are not in E.U. compliance on energy security even now, and will be even less so if the greens get their way and ban LNG.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    About time the E.U. copped themselves on on some of this green hypocrisy.

    China and India, two of the major polluters we are expected by green supporters to give a pass too because their individual footprints are less than ours have show with their coal burning plants they have no intention of changing and have recently added to that by stockpiling oil that Putin is selling cheap to get his hands on cash.

    The E.U. look as if they may also have finally seen through the marginal price model scam with talk of windfall taxes for electric energy producers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    That is the modern Greens summed up alright. If they went back to the core principles of Reduce, Reuse and Recycle - then they'd get a bit more respect. But to get bums on seats and ministries, they need to buy into the growth model and so we hear Mr.Ryan trumpeting about Ireland being a leader in Green Technology. Buy, sell, churn the market - all OK as long as it's Green tech.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    but we don't really have any reserves that can be economically extracted, all the ones that are economic are being extracted or have been extracted.

    unless the state decides to extract itself and is happy to use it just for domestic supply and take whatever losses, then uneconomic deposits could be extracted, but that isn't going to happen.

    with LNG the sources are the same sources as non-LNG and with those sources security is absolutely not guaranteed due to internal issues, and other political issues.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    More Saudi Arabia of wind type nonsense, like all these schemes big on hype and light on detail. Come back to me when you have a zero-carbon solution that works reliably in the winter, when energy demand is highest but sunshine is lowest and winds can drop for days at a time.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    the green party haven't banned LNG, just questioned it's viability given the wholesale price of gas as dictated by the market and the fact it comes from the same sources as non-LNG.

    no point in meeting companies to try and extract uneconomic deposits that we may have, may as well just do it ourselves and take the losses if we are going to do it, which we aren't.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    the west are responsible for the growth of china in the first place by farming lots of it's manufacturing out there for cheap labour so it is not in a position to criticise china on that issue.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    china and india won't be getting a pass as they will have to pay thousands of times the cost we will in the end.

    not to mention they aren't an argument against the necessary modernisation and clean up we will have to go through, as it will benefit us more then on a world scale.

    clean air, car free cities, will all be of massive benefit to the people in the form of clean air, green space and much more.

    there will be pain to get there but ultimately we are having to go there to clean up the place.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    That at least one major player is now poised to extract large volumes of natural gas shows you are incorrect.

    The current economic situation and global security issues means our national reserves are now more viable than ever. And Barryroe is certainly not the only potential natural resource which is now both strategically important and viable.





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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    That is the aim. They've objected to practically every LNG proposal todate. Don't kid yourself otherwise. Now they've came out with this.

    If you referring to Barryroe - the costs of exploration and extraction are covered by the relevant company and investors. So we lose nothing.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    By all means, choose any other source from the many available, including from the Danish government

    https://www.google.com/search?q=denmark+energy+island



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The Green party are proposing a bill to ban LNG. If you understand what LNG is then you should know why it is called LNG and why it is important right now.

    If, like Eamon you are stonewalling a company then how will you know if it is uneconomical, and I very much doubt a company is interesting in meeting him because they believe it is uneconomical.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Less reason so to call on the banning of LNG from other countries based on supposition if you are happy enough continuing to be part of the problem in China then is it not ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    there is no calling on the banning of liquified natural gas which comes from the same sources as non-liquified natural gas, just a questioning of it's actual viability.

    and a realisation that we need to go more quicker to move to cheap alternatives as the price of gas is going only one way, up.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Again, this craziness that we will sort out the planet on our own.

    China and India make up 40% of this planets population. We represent 0.065% .

    We are pissing into the wind and while others who could not give a toss, are using cheap energy unhindered, and even encouraged to produce "green" products strengthening their economies, while we are destroying ours and making beggars of our citizens.

    ffs, China aren`t just the largest world producers of solar panels, they are predicted to become the same for EV`s.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    I would love to know who has shown it up as a non runner?

    So far we had the conversation about wind with everyone ignoring solar, which seemingly doesn’t work apart from all the information shared to confirm it does

    Marine institute confirmed Ireland is perfect for tidal/wave but that needs investment

    Methane is another which Bord gais and others have confirmed ireland is perfect


    None of which have been shown to be a non runner apart from “what happens when wind doesn’t blow” silly comments, so please can you provide why they are non runners?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    it's you and others unable to except the necessary reality going on about us sorting out the plannet.

    what we are doing will sort ourselves out a hell of a lot more and benefit us a hell of a lot more then the plannet and that is why we need to do it regardless of whatever our contribution to the plannet may be.

    our economy isn't being destroyed and it's wholesale prices dictated by the market that are causing energy price increases which will be effecting china and india to an extent as well.

    whatever cheap energy china and india may have access to won't last long as coal is finite and at the rates both countries are extracting and burning it will be gone in the next few decades.

    so china are producing solar pannels and EVS, so what? that is the choice the west has made to farm out manufacturing to there decades ago rather then keeping it in house, they could undo that but don't want to and won't do so because it's cheap.

    either way, not an argument against the necessary modernisation we are going to have to go through to cut costs, clean up the place and deal with the huge levels of polution we have as well as take back our cities.

    modernisation is happening, it's over and the times oh they are a changing.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,214 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Do you know what is contained in the proposed Green party bill on LNG ?

    How many times does it have to be repeated. We need natural gas because renewables are unreliable. Wind and solar power are not reliable and until we have a 100% reliable renewable source that is not going to change no matter how quickly you move.

    Not only will we need natural gas, we need a secure source of natural gas, and right now with a European shortage of natural gas that is not going away anytime soon, LNG is the only alternative recognised transitional energy source.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    What a pile of rubbish, shows you have zero idea of the Irish employment market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    a shortage of natural gas equals a shortage of LNG seeing as LNG is natural gas liquified.

    as the supplies of gassified natural gas are not secure currently then so will be the supply of liquified natural gas.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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