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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    This energy crisis is a combination of factors that have been building for 2 decades and all come to head starting with the Covid lockdowns. One of the consequences is problems in integrated circuit production where the parts are not being produced or production runs are terminated and products are end of life. The spare parts are not being made and any available on the market are expensive and have much longer delivery times. This means that a modern tractor or car that needs repair may be out of service until the proprietary parts can be got. Without an operational tractor the field cannot be planted or harvested.

    Another problem supply chains are breaking, if farmers cannot get feed (e.g. grain) for cattle in time, they have no choice but to sell the animals much sooner than expected. Natural gas is used to make nitrogen fertiliser, even before the war demand for gas outstripped supply and the price doubled, the reason for the supply/price imbalance was due to an extended cold Spring in Europe and a Summer with low wind that ran down gas supplies. Eveyone needed to go into the market at once to build up supplies for Winter resulting in price rises. Fertiliser is expensive and scarce, Farmers have to re-evaluate their planting and provisioning decisions and reduce their inputs, meaning their outputs are reduced and it is uneconomic to grow certain foods, i.e. no production and less employment (a lot of farming work is seasonal). This eventually translates to empty shelves.

    No money, no debt can help when the goods are not being produced, you end up with is the classic too much money chasing too few goods. The cost of living keeps rising, people can no longer afford to work for previous wages, they either get a pay rise or they stop working, migrate or change jobs. The cost of production keeps rising. Cost pressures mean business must do more with less, i.e. workforce reduction or substitution with automation or outsourcing. Green policies are just one aspect of a multifaceted problem built around energy scarcity and exploding debt.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    I was listening to the Green leader responding to Pearce Doherty's proposal to lower the vat and other measures in response to the 24%gas hikes yesterday. Ryan is definitely on another planet and hasn't a clue about the affect on normal working people. Or perhaps he just doesn't give a toss. Anyhow it's embarrassing listening to him waffle nonsense.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As I said, won't happen

    Even SF, with their collection of knuckle-draggers, nutjobs and anti-science folks, know they would have virtually no support for a rollback. Its why they've become more and more quiet on the topic over time, instead focusing on the hit to the pocket which is fair enough. They'll look for pressure to be eased on the pocket but won't look for a halt to climate action plans



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A breakdown of some of the costs on a typical Irish electric bill and whats behind some of those costs




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    renewables when there is a mix of them are reliable as they all back each other up when each other goes through their weaknesses meaning the others have their strengths.

    the issue at the moment is that we are focusing on 1 or 2 forms of renewable energy

    What other forms of renewables are actually viable to fill the gap in this country?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭jolivmmx


    Chu didn’t get the senate yesterday. I think that it is a good boding of things to come for the Greens.

    Are there many Greens in elected positions at present? What are they doing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    From that article by a solar panel salesman.

    Promoting renewables will drive electricity prices lower. However, if we do not address the factors within our control, that transition will cost Ireland more than it should. That is not sustainable and is unfair on vast swathes of society. Ireland can do so much better.


    Conall Bolger is chief executive of the Irish Solar Energy Association

    The more random energy is put in the grid the more expensive electricity becomes, look at Denmark and Germany. The reason is the balancing costs AND you need a to maintain a reserve of reliable generation plant and fuel for the frequent times wind and solar do not perform. The reserve generation does not go down as wind and solar increase, plus the fuel reserve actually goes up because the loss of wind and solar is bigger.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    The point is that with our own reserves of natural gas PLUS Liquid Natural Gas which can be secured from a number of sources means we have much greater security and reliability of supply than IF we solely depend on one single pipipeline as at present

    But more importantly Brokenangel has never been correct yet 😅



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Might want to dig a bit deeper into Denmarks plans for the future, they are going to be a MASSIVE exporter of surplus power in a few years



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    This has been brought up on here before and shown to be a non runner.

    What other renewables do we have in Ireland apart from wind and solar that will be ready to go when corrib runs out in 2025?

    When we get a high pressure system in winter, there will be little to no wind and barely any solar.

    The big hope is green hydrogen via electrolysis using excess renewable energy, which won’t happen until way after 2030.

    This is what the few on here can’t get their heads around, there is no option, other than fossil fuel (gas) until we get a green hydrogen storage option up and running.

    If we don’t develop our own gas resources then that means depending on the UK allowing gas to enter the Irish Grid.

    This is the state of play and whatever else you say can’t get away from this fact.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Nope. The independent survey shows that Barryroe contains large reserves of natural gas and oil. The company have stated just last month that they plan to proceed with an appraisal well at the field in 2023 (this is last step before extraction) subject to ministerial approval, which could pave the way first production in 2026. The main thing which is now seems to be holding up the final phase is Mr Ryans stonewalling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    What. .they have discovered the secret to beating the shortcomings of random energy?. They have not. You can see the output from the Danish system on a daily basis here. Denmark is heavily reliant on Norway (Hydro power) and Sweden (Nuclear/Hydro) for balancing its grid. The consequence for Norwegian consumers has been increasing electricity costs and Norwegian surplus is running out, coincidently by 2026.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Are the stipends from Gasprom regular or does Putin turn of the taps randomly ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Jesus.

    You are an absolute melt 😂🤦‍♂️.

    I knew you were a WUM.

    You haven’t answered a damn thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,073 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The reality is we do not have a mix of renewables that are reliable, and it will be a long long time before we do if all we are concentrating on is wind and solar, so it is going to be a long long time before we can move away from natural gas. Gas is indeed now scarce in the E.U. due to a war, but that does not negate the fact that we need it and will continue to need it so where is the logic behind the Green party seeking to ban LNG and Ryan refusing to meet a company to even discuss the possibility of us having untapped reserves of our own ?

    Does that muppet, like some of his supporters here, believe that we can go from where we are now too reliable, dependable 100% renewable energy in one magic leap ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,073 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Strange advice from someone the post wasn`t even addressed to.

    If people weren`t posting needless "advice" and incorrect claims I wouldn`t feel the need to reply. So in essence you are addressing the wrong poster. That is unless you believe incorrect statements should not be challenged ?

    I can see how that would make life easier for some here alright.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,073 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Have you been over-indulging on the sherry again ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Looks like all those cheap solar panals so loved by Europeans and manufactured in factories power by Chinese coal and/or with slave labour could well be a thing of the past.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,073 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Christ, the hypocrisy of greens is truly mind boggling.

    It`s fine where it suits their agenda that their beloved solar panels are manufactured using energy from coal burning plants from a country that is one of the worlds top CO2 emitters, who are building over 30 more such plants, who have one of the worst humanitarian record, even to the extent they are now using slave labour to manufacture those beloved solar panels.

    They are also fast off the mark when it comes to telling us about our commitments and fines we will suffer from the E.U. if we do not comply with their wishes, yet have the gall to tell us we should not touch LNG that the E.U. has no problem with while ignoring that we are not in E.U. compliance on energy security even now, and will be even less so if the greens get their way and ban LNG.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,073 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    About time the E.U. copped themselves on on some of this green hypocrisy.

    China and India, two of the major polluters we are expected by green supporters to give a pass too because their individual footprints are less than ours have show with their coal burning plants they have no intention of changing and have recently added to that by stockpiling oil that Putin is selling cheap to get his hands on cash.

    The E.U. look as if they may also have finally seen through the marginal price model scam with talk of windfall taxes for electric energy producers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,072 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    That is the modern Greens summed up alright. If they went back to the core principles of Reduce, Reuse and Recycle - then they'd get a bit more respect. But to get bums on seats and ministries, they need to buy into the growth model and so we hear Mr.Ryan trumpeting about Ireland being a leader in Green Technology. Buy, sell, churn the market - all OK as long as it's Green tech.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    but we don't really have any reserves that can be economically extracted, all the ones that are economic are being extracted or have been extracted.

    unless the state decides to extract itself and is happy to use it just for domestic supply and take whatever losses, then uneconomic deposits could be extracted, but that isn't going to happen.

    with LNG the sources are the same sources as non-LNG and with those sources security is absolutely not guaranteed due to internal issues, and other political issues.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    More Saudi Arabia of wind type nonsense, like all these schemes big on hype and light on detail. Come back to me when you have a zero-carbon solution that works reliably in the winter, when energy demand is highest but sunshine is lowest and winds can drop for days at a time.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    the green party haven't banned LNG, just questioned it's viability given the wholesale price of gas as dictated by the market and the fact it comes from the same sources as non-LNG.

    no point in meeting companies to try and extract uneconomic deposits that we may have, may as well just do it ourselves and take the losses if we are going to do it, which we aren't.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    the west are responsible for the growth of china in the first place by farming lots of it's manufacturing out there for cheap labour so it is not in a position to criticise china on that issue.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    china and india won't be getting a pass as they will have to pay thousands of times the cost we will in the end.

    not to mention they aren't an argument against the necessary modernisation and clean up we will have to go through, as it will benefit us more then on a world scale.

    clean air, car free cities, will all be of massive benefit to the people in the form of clean air, green space and much more.

    there will be pain to get there but ultimately we are having to go there to clean up the place.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    That at least one major player is now poised to extract large volumes of natural gas shows you are incorrect.

    The current economic situation and global security issues means our national reserves are now more viable than ever. And Barryroe is certainly not the only potential natural resource which is now both strategically important and viable.





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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    That is the aim. They've objected to practically every LNG proposal todate. Don't kid yourself otherwise. Now they've came out with this.

    If you referring to Barryroe - the costs of exploration and extraction are covered by the relevant company and investors. So we lose nothing.



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