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Did the USA play a significantly negative role in events leading to Ukraine invasion?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Realistically Putin wants to downgrade the Ukraine military to a level that cant put up a fight anymore and I think he wants to keep the west out of Ukraine. Don't think peace is achievable till that is agreed here with the Ukraine government. I wouldnt rule out a partition of the country either Putin may go for full control of the entire east and south of country and leave the west alone. Ukraine said the same and would not call it crazy talk.

    Objectives in the south are Kherson, Mariupol and Odessa ( two out of three are near completed tasks by Russia) east fighting will start up very soon Russian forces are probably now redeploying to retake the donbass. There is a pause now (calm) since Russia regearing up for final push at the east. Anyway going to do something else enough of talking about this today. Sick with covid so have the time to chat.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They were banned by a court but still effectively operate freely. Nobody's identity is a secret, the state are simply fine with them operating....


    In relation to Utkin, he's known for SS related tattoos. Has an obsession with the Third Reich and named the group after a famed anti semite. Pretty sure you'll reject everything though.





  • Registered Users Posts: 17,928 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Think. How do Russian forces "control" e.g. the South of the country

    Do they kill/kidnap their mayors and replace them with puppet Russian mayors? (as they've been doing?) Do they deport local civilians over to remote regions in Russia? (as they've been doing) Do they hold a fake referendum and then declare the territory "independent" or "Russian"? (as they've done in the past)

    How are they going to accomplish any of those things when the locals despise them and a massive hostile defending army hates them even more?

    Likewise how are they going to "downgrade the Ukraine military"? It's literally growing from captured Russian equipment, it's getting stronger day-by-day from an influx of weaponry and equipment and supplies from the richest countries in the world, they have enormous high morale manpower (the army is 125k, Nat. Guard is 60k and reserves are nearly a million strong, plus they have thousands of foreign volunteers plus 10's of thousands of Ukrainians returning from abroad)

    Likewise how are they going to hold the territory in the East in this "final push"?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Look at that picture in the image.

    That picture allegedly Utkin?? How do they know this is him when the face blocked out by a large black circle?? All I see is a white guy with a German WW2 war hat on his head.

    Group banned in Russia that still a law today.

    In October 2021, Male State was designated an extremist organisation in Russia, and its activities in the country were banned.

    That is not proof for you, prefer to promote the idea the Russian government allows them to operate anyway in secret? You believe till its true i guess.,

    Dohnjoe. All this stuff got from Ukrainian websites when a war on and obviously you reading it and regurgitating it all here. There is no evidence Russia deported citizens to Russia against their will ( provide direct evidence) other than a claim you read online. Ukrainian Mayor was replaced and a Russia backed one steps in and takes his place that's normal wartime actions. Do you not get it there is a war on now we cant go back to the positions of 2014????

    Wants particularly dangerous is that the west is controlling the narrative Ukraine is beating the Russian army easily ( with no actual evidence to show that’s true) What happened to that counter attack in Kherson ( headline appeared) is now forgotten.Mystery advance in the south?? Area fully controlled by Russia still. I believe Ukraine beating Russia when territory lost is retaken by force.

    The Russian army redrew from around kyiv yet it is labelled as an advance by the Ukraine army and pushing out the Russians by force

    Unfortunately west risking a lot of families lives in the west by sending weapons to Ukraine too. This last point scares me the most since we seem to act as if Russia not a world nuclear weapons power. Scary people taken over the conversation and seem to pushi for Ukraine to have better weapons to kill Russian soldiers.. They be the quietest people around when the nukes are fired and still their silly rants will have killed us all because the politicians listened to them!!!! Russia targetting the shipments means a missile could hit Nato territory, due to fault or error, and what could go wrong then!!!

    UK and US do here after they invaded Iraq and Russia decided there and then to provide supplies to the Iraqi army to beat off the invaders. Playing with fire and lot of idiots are too stupid to see the dangers. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    This is a crazy person who thinks this way and she works as a journalist?




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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    lol "revision of history" accuses the literial holocaust denier.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Also Male State being banned means very little if they're still freely allowed to operate as per the article. Nobody is being sent to jail or anything, strange for a nation that invaded on grounds of denazification.


    And Bellingcat backs up that Utkin has an obsession with the Reich. History nerds don't just choose to name after famed anti semites. On top of that, we literally have a selfie of him with Nazi tattoos.... Once again @Cheerful S you happily downplay Nazis when it suits. You're leaping to the defense of some of the most vile people on the globe cause it doesn't suit your narrative.


    The irony of you using Bellingcat is that they don't agree with a single thing you say. They don't view the US as some weird aggressors in this scenario. They've pointed to the fact that Russia is happy to allow Nazis operate freely within the state. (Bans with no enforcement is not a ban) They back up that Russia has a chemical weapons programme, they don't claim Ukraine does.


    Oh and one more thing, here's a piece just prior to the invasion that details how Russia literally engaged in false flags in Donbas.(they've got a history of doing this).


    It's also pretty clear you're using sources outside of Bellingcat but not posting them for some reason...



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Also Male State being banned means very little if they're still freely allowed to operate as per the article. Nobody is being sent to jail or anything, strange for a nation that invaded on grounds of denazification.

    And for a country that arrests and jails people for holding up signs. Even blank ones.


    What's going to be fun is that we're going to start hearing about Russia can't have done any false flags because it's impossible to conceive that a country would do a false flag...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Bellingcat is capable of good journalism from time to time, and, well known online, articles by them the research is paid for by the British Ministry of defence. A lot of the Nato intelligence about Russia is fantasized and very hard to challenge since its stories about Russia. Nobody in the west has the guts to independently investigate and challenge a Bellingcat story, and truly find out if the UK intelligence reliable every story they print.

    You got a selfie of a guy showing off tattoos in his bedroom and is a pulling a weird face. That's it nothing more. There is a photo allegedly Utkin Putin in that one could be Utkin??? I don't see the facial resemblance between the selfie guy and Putin/Utkin photo.

    I never came here and claimed Bellingcat agreed with my opinion about the war? Off another tangent, as per usual.. The Bellingcat article from 2019. There writing about Neo Nazis from the Russia state joining Azov in Ukraine. Groups that are Anti- Kremlin/Putin.. Western media big claim there is no weaponized neo nazi problem inside Ukraine, oh really?//

    Western media often detaches people from the actual reality and don't seem to appreciate red line warnings are not always bluffs. Putin was specific with the west stop your encroachment and build-up of Nato inside Ukraine or face the whirlwind!! All the crying after the invasion I got no pity for because you got warned to stop and west refused to listen. Be this a lesson.

    In another thread (current affairs) users are clueless.. Winning Ukraine is vital now for Putin and is the one country he can't allow the west to win the war or have a propaganda defeat message. Putin will go to the brink to stop the west from winning there. This is only the beginning and people better wake up now this war will last till Russia achieves a victory that acceptable to them,. War will go on and on till Russia wins. . 



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,928 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    "If information corresponds with my fringe world views then it must be, if it doesn't I attack it"



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,928 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    On the flip side if you need police assistance quickly, just have a piece of A4 handy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Maybe it be better for the world to have more people who do believe in fringe things!!!!!! Clearly, the mainstream you talking about is very irrational and not clear-headed and gotten us into a bloody proxy fight with Russia over Ukraine. They made movies like “threads” to warn us about this crap.

    We could have agreed to Putin's proposals of Ukraine staying neutral, two years ago or more, but no we played silly game, saying no no no Russia you go away, we do what we like here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    In the current affairs Russians thread, never seen so many crazy people appear in one thread. This is what happens when crazies take over, consider it normal to have a nuclear war with Russia. Seriously need to get a life and some commonsense, get off boards.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Weird, any reason you're not addressing how Russia is happy to lock up anyone except for their native Nazis? You're also naturally ignoring proof of a false flag cause it doesn't suit you.... In relation to western encroachment, Ukraine politically was leaning more towards the west. Ukraine like any other state should have the right to self determination, it's been a pretty central tenet to nationhood throughout the 20th and 21st century.

    You are absolutely trying to justify this with Russian propaganda. Also why won't you say what sites you are using as your general sources....


    Pretty sure you'd have been justifying the Nazis expansionism back in the day based on the crap you tend to post...



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Well we had other plans for the Ukraine I guess. So we gave them military advisors to bring their tactics up to scratch. And we gave them modern weaponry and logistics. And we held some mighty massive manoeuvres there where we could dance around in front of Russia. And needle them a bit. But other than that we're totally innocent and completely surprised and appalled. Appalled I say. And disgusted. With that Russian butcher. Who attacked them. Who could have known? So we give them some more weapons and support. But not so much they can drag us into it. Just enough to produce more headlines about butchery and stuff. So we can be a bit more appalled. And disgusted. But other than that we're totally innocent. Nothing to see here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,356 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    According to December 2013 polls (by three different pollsters), between 45% and 50% of Ukrainians supported Euromaidan, while between 42% and 50% opposed it.[141][142][143] The biggest support for the protest was found in Kyiv (about 75%) and western Ukraine (more than 80%).[141][144] Among Euromaidan protesters, 55% were from the west of the country, with 24% from central Ukraine and 21% from the east.[145]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

    Half the country was against the Revolution. Never got that report on CNN or Sky News, did you?. Lot of people in the country got upset by the revolution, fact ignored inside the west.

    Putin was to move against another country that got long-standing ties and Nato membership than his doing a Hitler here



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're the guy who actively said Ukraine should fully surrender. Meanwhile it's looking increasingly likely that as a result of them not surrendering, Russia will at best get some regions. It's far from a victory for Ukraine but equally it's them not being entirely absorbed into Russia. In that scenario, the rights of citizens would be greatly diminished and they would be subject to Russian rule....


    Weird, continuing to dodge the entirety of the content of my post.... Can't come up with an actual rebuttal?


    Fyi, Russia was cooperatively involved with NATO up until that point where they annexed Crimea...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Do you have family or kids? Have you read that thread in the last hour? think ahead what happens if Nato and Russia have a war. It not a game this.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,928 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Just looked at the ban list, I recognise about a dozen conspiracy theorists there, and most of the rest are the usual suspects that seem to be threadbanned in multiple threads, so it looks like the mods are doing a good job. Thread is perfectly normal. Your views are very extreme to say the least.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Cheerful, you are diverting from points you can't address... You've pushed a Russian propaganda line throughout this thread including the claim of denazification when the reality is Russia does nothing about its own Neo Nazi problem and even use Neo Nazis as a wing of their military....



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,928 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    (Warning on below images)

    These are areas the Russians have just fled from, they are discovering this, some have their hands tied behind their backs, what's going on here?





  • Registered Users Posts: 17,928 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,928 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    This is the thread apparently for posters who attempt to make excuses and side with Putin propaganda for what's going on, so what's happening in these photos of areas that the Russians have only just left?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭pcardin


    go, tell us what you and your boyfriend Vladimir will do if Nato and Russia will have a war. 😂 I suppose everything is possible in your head when u r high on pills.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    This war never needed to happen. There was a way out, but outside influences prevented Ukraine from negotiating with Russia and the weaponized Neo Nazi factions ( tiny compared to main army but dangerous) threatened the Zelensky government began offering concessions to Russia about Donbas and Luhansk and Crimea.

    Ukraine is going to end up worst situation after this war now. Unless the mad hatters get their way and we have WW3 and all the world lit up like a Christmas tree. 

    Do you think it's sane to put Nato troops inside Ukraine?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Shocking images.


    The, problem is we know citizens got given weapons by the Ukraine government to kill Russian soldiers. Shooting at them means no longer being a civilian.

    that picture at 595 is odd one the way the bodies are placed in a kind of a dump ground. It's like they got moved and just thrown there, then killed there as a group?

    New images have to see what both sides say, 



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,928 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    There was no way out. Ukraine is a sovereign country, at no point does it need to answer to a totalitarian neighbour who has relentlessly attacked it, annexed territory and now finally invaded it.

    As a result of Russian imperialism and aggressive, it's likely more countries will choose to join NATO, like Sweden and Finland



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,928 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    These are civilians from Russian held areas north of Kyiv (the Russians have only left in the last 24 to 48 hours), did these people tie themselves up and shoot themselves?



This discussion has been closed.
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