Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Is it time to join Nato

Options
13839414344152

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You want a situation were a future Irish government is not constrained and can legally send troops where they wish.

    That is possible under your scheme.


    Nothing more to be said really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes and admitted I was wrong. Something others find difficult.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,406 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Wasnt it you who argued for invasion in the North while also keeping the Triple Lock Francie?

    Tell us, who would the Brits on the UN Security Council reacted to our plan?


    Yes and admitted I was wrong.

    Are you wrong here too?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No I argued that we should have sent an aid mission to the north and ignored the law.

    You want to make the possibility of that legal.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,406 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    "An aid mission" with armed Irish defence force personnel crossing the border of a soverign NATO country.

    And if that wasn't bad enough, the state should have ignored and broken its own laws.... hilarious Francie, a great laugh you are this Saturday morning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    YOU want to make that legal. 😁😁

    I was fully aware that an aid mission was counter to UN rules and made the point that even though it was legally wrong, sometimes that should not matter if it is morally the right thing to do.

    Well done mark on advocating for a situation were no UN rules would be broken. It is brilliant how you have undermined your own position.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,406 ✭✭✭✭markodaly



    YOU want to make that legal.

    You think repeating this is some kind of 'Get out of Jail Free' card, but it isn't. In fact, your using it makes you look utterly foolish and far removed from reality.

    I am not advocating Ireland invade a NATO country, you are.

    I am advocating getting rid of the Triple Lock, where we the Irish state get to decide our own foreign and defence policy. You seem to be OK with a British veto on the UNSC but to be honest, you just want to argue for the sake of it.

    You have two competing arguments that together don't make any sense at all. Sure, you are advocating that when it suits that Ireland ignores and breaks its own laws.... yet you want to KEEP that law.


    I was fully aware that an aid mission was counter to UN rules and made the point that even though it was legally wrong, sometimes that should not matter if it is morally the right thing to do.

    I thought it was a 'peacekeeping' mission Francie, not an aid mission. I guess the Putin bot in you realise now how stupid it would be to use the word peacekeeping when invading another country.

    Anyway, again, within the same post you contradict yourself. If the case arises in your opinion, Ireland should do the 'right thing' regardless of any domestic or international law. So again, why have such a law on the books?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    When you are explaining you are losing heavily.

    You want to make what I suggested legal, you also want to enable a future government to invade aggressively if they so wish. Consequences mark, you didn't think them through. Under your utopia Russia would be entirely within it's rights to do what it is doing. The old days of imperialism and colonialism which we know you have very few problems with. Didn't realise you wanted them back.

    I have issues, as stated, with the Triple Lock, but as I said repeatedly, it is the best thing we have got.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,883 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Russia and China (not UK!) are of course the major problem with the "Triple lock" idea. They are 2 pillars of the UN, permanent Security Council members and guardians + watchmen of the post WW2 peace. Nothing can really happen at a UN level if one or other of them block it. The mask is fully off Russia now, they've gone rogue, and it is slipping very badly on China too (IMO it's highly likely they blessed the invasion of Ukraine and told Putin he had their full support). Problems this could cause Ireland in a future crisis were the lock to be enshrined in the Constitution are quite obvious.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Fairly conclusive.




  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The closest similarity in recent times with Francie's crazy insane idea of an aid mission to the North is actions of the Russians in annexing Crimea and sending an "aid mission" to de-nazify Ukraine and help ethnic Russians.

    That is the company his idea keeps, so enough said about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Francie believes that if Ireland had entered the war, the Luftwaffe would have flown over the UK, evading UK air defences and ignoring the opportunities of bombing major cities in the UK and bombed Scotstown and Clontibret instead, reducing Ireland to a rubble.

    It is crazy insane stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I had forgotten that Francie's Triple Lock Constitutional initiative would give the Brits a veto on the use of the Irish Army. What a faux-pas!!!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    No Francie, that threat never existed. It just didn't. There was nobody worrying about the Germans reducing Ireland to rubble during WW", bar a few hysterics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Oh dear, woefully underinformed.

    In 1940 British intelligence informed their Irish counterparts of the existence of Operation Green, a detailed strategy drawn up by the German high command for the invasion of Ireland. The Irish began immediately to work with the British on their own secret military plans. This collaboration, codenamed Plan W, was a blueprint for the joint defence of Ireland in the event of a Nazi attack on the island. 

    De Valera’s darkest hour: How Ireland dealt with the Nazi threat (irishtimes.com)



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    So now Francie is a believer in British intelligence. Who would have ever thought we would see this day?

    Only a few months ago, you were joining in the Sinn Fein chorus about reliance on British intelligence to expel Russian diplomats. If they were so correct in 1940, how were they so wrong in 2021?

    Francie, you are a complete charlatan. This is so funny.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch, we were discussing the government and people of Ireland of the time not me.

    It matters not one whit what I believe.

    I am sure Dev treated the info with the same healthy skepticism as I would anything emanating from British intelligence but the fact is they were under threat and did not have the benefit of hindsight that you forgot you were using. It's probably why contemporary accounts reflect that, why precautions were taken,(blackouts, public information campaigns) the coasts watched and why it was discussed in the Dáil.

    You attempts to turn facts into something to ridicule me are just as fabulous as they are pathetic.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A whale only gets harpooned when it comes up to blow.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Maybe you could ask him why a country that didn't feel there was a threat increased it's defence forces hugely and trained them to repel an invasion as well as the other questions asked about watching the coast, the public info campaigns, the Dáil discussions and the warning from British Intelligence about Operation Green?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    For the absence of all doubt,you're metaphorically referencing a blowing poster whose posts are so ridiculous,everyone else harpooning them is no surprise

    I dont think the recipient cares tbh



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,406 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Repeating the same old rubbish doesn't make your point better Francie, in fact it makes it worse. You can lie away as at this stage it doesn't matter as you have no credibility anyway.

     Under your utopia Russia would be entirely within it's rights to do what it is doing.

    Where in gods name am I even hinting at this? Why do you have to lie about others so pathologically in order to squirm away from the hole you are in? The only person here reeling off pro Kremlin talking points is you.


    The old days of imperialism and colonialism which we know you have very few problems with. Didn't realise you wanted them back

    Again, with all due respect, where am I hinting at this? What the **** are you on about? Why do you have to lie and make **** up to save face?

    How is Ireland getting rid of the Triple Lock somehow wanting a return to the age of colonialism and imperialism? Go on Francie, try me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Didn't you also claim in another post that the British were planning on invading Ireland during WW2 and now you are crediting British intelligence with helping us at that time? This is so so funny.

    What about acting on British intelligence on good republicans and taking it at face value? Is that something we should do?

    The credibility of your posts is completely shot. Some friendly advice, if you weren't so determined to double down on all your notions, you wouldn't expose the ridicule as often.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    For the reaction you gave I suppose...

    This thread is a master class in childish trolling and reaction

    I don't understand what people get out of it

    Its on the derangement scale



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You want rid of the triple lock so OUR intentions cannot be vetoed or blocked? ( you have tried often enough to taunt about this)

    I asked had you fully thought through the consequences of removing that constraint and it was clear you hadn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I presume you are accusing me of 'trolling'?

    Bizarre that you cannot see somebody claiming adamantly 'that no threat' to Ireland existed in WW2 is not an extreme troll.

    When these people can explain how increasing massively our defence forces and training them to resist and invasion, mounting coastal watches, engaging in blackouts and information campaigns, recieving a warning about Operation Green and discussing all the above in the Dáil is NOT a sign of a nation that felt threatened if the war took an unexpected turn (nobody knew after all) then maybe the conversation can move on.

    Maybe it is because of the poll that shows very few will have anything to do with NATO that we are having this ridiculous head staggering diversion?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Deranged, wanting to hand over our sovereignty to the five great powers on the UN Security Council. Bonkers stuff from you. Imagine Trump, Putin and Johnson squabbling over whether Ireland could send its troops abroad and Ireland not having a say.

    I don't think you really believe this stuff and are just posting for effect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    There was never any real threat of invasion, you know that, I know that, historians agree, why do you persist in repeating this nonsense?

    We ran away from the fight against the Nazis, not something to be proud of, but a black mark on our history.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 68,697 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Whatever you believe you are using 'hindsight' as are historians.

    At the time the threat was real.

    FFS🙄



Advertisement