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When will Comedy End?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,482 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    context is subjective, I think we need to agree to disagree…if people can be grown up about it and appreciate it’s ‘of its time’… all the better..

    one of the best comedy programs ever to come out of Britain was Steptoe and Son..

    you could claim elements were sexist, homophobic, racist, misogynistic… it probably to a point was.. but Galton and Simpson made sure the joke was always on the two main protagonists… it took the piss out of everyone, laughed at everyone….



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,365 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I don't t think we have to agree to disagree that monkey has become an overtly offensive, racist term for black people. Nor should we agree to disagree that it wasn't as offensive when the show was made.

    Maybe everyone should go research the social and cultural zeitgeist of every old show they watch to fully appreciate the nuances and how things have changed over time. I think that's unlikely to happen and a note that puts co text to it is a small compromise. We can probably agree to disagree that even a small compromise is too much for some people



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    It’s ironic how much power people put into some words, thinking they are neutering the impact of a word by getting outraged at it’s use , attacking the user and in doing so they do the opposite. It’s like trying to encourage people to love and respect others by mentally beating them into submission. It is comparable with religious flailing of those who don’t conform to a very particular dogma.

    The amount of aggression and over the top attacking that can happen is quite a thing to behold. It’s usually self righteousness of the highest kind and it makes me think of the old saying “if everybody just focused on keeping their Side of the road clean the world would be much cleaner”. Or “he who has commit no sin , throw the first stone”.

    Another thing I think of is how many of these people thrive off this narcissistic self righteousness and in some way it’s allowing them to ignore their own faults. In short , pointing fingers at others means you don’t need to look at your own behaviour. You can see a lot of it in highly emotional threads like the Ukraine ones with some posters taking a holier then thou approach to what they post. Attacking anybody who they feel are not fully supporting the Ukrainian cause as they see it as if it’s their right , even if they are attacking people who are not actually defending Putin.

    I was listening to a very good podcast from Sam Harris, talking about Joe Rogan getting grief for using the N word. He doesn’t mince his words and I happen to agree with him, it’s pathologically insane to get so worked up about a word , to respond to somebody using the word as if they are supporting the aggression behind the word (eg N word) and it’s even worse to expect that certain people are not allowed to use any word. (White people using N word in any context).

    People getting worked up about the N word , as much as they might do if they heard of an actual racist being racist is just all wrong. A person who uses a word that is considered a racist word, is not comparable with an actual person who hates a particular race. Some might say “well that’s not really what banning a word is about” but it’s not addressing anything to do with racism at all. Me using the N word means nothing about my sentiments towards a certain section of society and yet by just saying the word I could suffer terrible abuse regardless of context. That’s just a load of ignorant bollox.

    You can’t rationally ban the use the words , it’s comparable with the childish “he who should not be named” response to Voldemort in Harry Potter books. It’s not a mature reaction to a word on any level and then it does nothing to address the reasons why it’s considered so insulting in the first place.

    I remember I was at a Omad Djalilli gig in Vicar street and he said a joke about German nazis that didn’t really go down well. It was a cringey joke that was prob more popular with an English audience but nobody felt the need to jump up and scream nonsense at him. He just moved on and everybody enjoyed the rest of the show. That’s what should happen, dont choose to get offended, accept what offends you doesn’t offend everybody , what offends you may not intentionally of been said to offend you, you are not the centre of the universe , just move on.



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Certainly removing this content I don’t agree with- history has to be seen in perspective. If I ever become independently wealthy or maybe in retirement I’d love to do a Masters in historical movies or historical TV programs and to what degree they either reflected how society thought or tried to reflect growing movements in society of the time, that were moving towards more positive depictions of either gender race or sexual issues of that time .

    I watched the entire series of Kojak a few years ago thanks to ITV4- the themes of drug abuse, for example, especially heroin were 10 years ahead of Ireland nearly to the day.

    Back on topic, While not always perfect, these TV comedy series do give an insight into the past and deleting or over dubbing parts that don’t conform to todays standards is just wrong and I’d probably stay up fighting the internet on that issue in fairness if a movement started to try and cancel all this material - it’s an historical document and history must be preserved in order that we can accurately appreciate where we’ve come from- fck WOKE on cancelling the past is what I say!



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,333 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I think I get worked up more by people saying "N word" as opposed to the word nigger. It's the most mealy mouthed alternative for something that I can think of.

    Of course, I don't believe that anyone should be using the word outside of a discussion due it's ability to cause the offence that it does. But the use of the "N word" replacement just makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,365 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Sure. The tag to put it in its cultural context is the best solution. Allows the art to be appreciated with te intention of the creators.

    I don't think many calling to cancel OFAH, are they?



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,482 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    You've never been in the wokwism of the day thread - they're not finding this stuff by accident!

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don’t think so- but even over-dubbing or deleting scenes is plain wrong - I reckon there’s a market for an historical channel of unedited films/movies and TV programs



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    I should have ellaborated.

    When it was suggested about exaggerating, it seems to me that the outrage already is exaggerated. If it was to go any further (even in some cases as it is now) in terms of what should be cancelled it would have to be asked who is making the boundaries.

    Almost everything can be deemed offensive to somebody. No more My wife,Mother in law, husband, son, daughter, sister, brother etc.. No more joking about certain food groups, especially not the ones I eat. No more joking about rainy days, as people with depression could find those days are worse for them etc.

    Could be comedy will have to come with rating on how thick skinned you are so some people can enjoy it.

    Very thick down to no skin.

    I probably wouldn't want to go to the very thick skinned gigs, but that would be my choice. As it would of the thin skinners not to watch or listen to the medium skin stuff etc..



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,365 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Even putting a tag on it to give it a tiny bit of cultural context, is too much? Are you sure that being completely inflexible is the solution?

    Edit: I think you're addressing the second part about whether many are calling for OFAH to be cancelled and not the bit about a tag being a good compromise. If so then I'd agree. I'm not suggesting editing it. Leave it as it is but putting a tag places it in some context. OFAH was very woke (or is it pronounced WOKE?) for its day. Even the theme tune suggests they don't discriminate - they'll scam everyone equally.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    I think I agree to a certain extent but I would say that the outrage is being exaggerated by those who want to be outraged by the outrage. If you look at the world and the overall comedy scene very little and very few have been cancelled culturally. Someone above mentioned how ironic it was that the woke generation grew up with the likes of South Park, The Simpsons, The Office, none of which have been cancelled. The Simpsons faced some backlash for the character of Apu because society around it progressed and it didn't keep up, a perfect example of comedy adapting.

    I still disagree that all humour can be designated offensive but it's tricky because I don't know how we're measuring offence - some people find bad language offensive. To suggest that we are heading in a direction where jokes about rainy days are will be considered offensive is complete hyperbole.

    Comedy is an infinitily wide spectrum and it can take many forms from visual to aural to written. Comedy that plays on stereotypes or targets minorities in a mean spirited way is waining in popularity but as I think I said before, if anyone thinks that signals the end of comedy then they have a very narrow sense of humour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot



    Your post is just another example that there will always be somebody choosing to get upset at a topic or how its communicated regardless of how you try to address it.

    People know what I meant, but thanks for the opportunity to expand on my point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,333 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    My post wasn't meant to be a barb at you. Relax.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Fair enough , regardless I think it was very relevant to the thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,482 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Was Fr Ted impersonating a chinaman racist ?


    Soon you won’t be able to take the piss out of anybody, comedy will be of the standard episode of 2.4 children.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,830 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Yes that's the whole point of the joke. That it is racist and he is trying to show he is not racist and keeps doing racist things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,365 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Are you cross about using 'the n word' instead of the actual word because of the concept of the actual word and the offence it causes or because people have come up with a way of discussing the concept while differentiating between those who want to cause offence and those who don't?

    Could you expand on why the attempt to use an agreed non-offensive term to discuss the concept makes you more cross than the agreed offensive term?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,333 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I just find that using "N word" when people want to say the word "nigger" to be a bit silly, that's all. Everyone knows the word they want to say, so people should just say the word. Simply saying the word in a discussion shouldn't offend anyone. It's the context that matters. So, in essence, I am in agreement with what Drumpot is saying. That people getting worked up over a word (any word) is "all wrong".

    It's understandable that some people may bristle at the word, but hiding behind "N word" tends to make me bristle more.

    It's no biggie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,830 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    I'm not saying the episode is racist. I am saying that episode of father Ted is lampooning racist behaviour. Dermot Morgans character is acting racist. That is the joke. That he is caught acting racist the nazi books the Hitler pose and raised arm, putting a lampshade on his head the squinted eye effect. The gibberish to sound like Chinese. Those are racist acts all while trying desperately not to be thought of as racist.

    It is lampooning actual racists and the oh I'm not racist defense.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,365 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Isn't it a neat convention to allow everyone to discuss the concept and differentiate between those who want to cause offence and those who want to discuss it without causing offence?

    I have no great desire to say the actual word when I know it causes so much offence. If I want to discuss the concept then the word I want to use is the one that conveys my meaning clearly.



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This is how celebrity roasts used to be- not pretty and this is only 5 mins or so, but yet some of the biggest names in American showbiz- racism and all - but laughing away- forced laughter for the camera I’d say - Enjoy!!!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7qah1O6MGg



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    When boards.ie have its way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,365 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Roasts are consensual though. That's significant.

    Does anyone know when the roast, as depicted above, started? Have they always been around or are they a new thing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Jimmy said Pedophiles are environmental sound.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,365 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Thanks. That's kinda what I waw wondering. It's consensual if you join a brotherhood of comedians who roast you, you know what's coming. I've just been wondering about the move from comedy being focuses on groups, to individuals. Roasting a consenting individual is fine, they can say whatever they agree to because they're in on the joke. It's not the same when it's a private individual



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    You can respect the rights of minoritys, women, lgbt groups , while still having a sense of humour. Theres plenty of good comedys being made right now

    Society changes.attitudes change. There are more women comedians on tv doing stand-up. Some of the most successful comedy writers are women like Tina fey mindy kaling. Comedy is changing to reflect real life comedys sitcoms now feature more lgbt characters without it being the focus of the story iike modern family eg it's not portrayed as a negative trait or in an over the top campy style the white middle class man is no longer the default

    main character in sitcoms or dramas having more diverse characters means theres as space for a wider range of storys to be told there are more dramas and comedys with black and minority characters

    But show business is a business if a program gets good ratings it'll get renewed low ratings it gets cancelled

    Comedy is like gaming its constantly changing as it reflects public demand taste and new ways to reach an audience with streaming channels theres probably more tv shows being made than ever before

    There's alot of old forgotten programs that are no longer screened or broadcast because the content is so racist or sexist or insulting to minority groups eg one example black and white minstrel show from the bbc

    I don't think that's a bad thing most old books are forgotten as they have no artistic or entertainment value to the modern reader



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭MOR316


    No, he's just a **** stand up and has been past it since Extras...

    Love The Office, love Extras but his stand ups do not age well at all and his stick is the same whole time. Mention he's an atheist, mention Twitter, offending people, animals and then say something to get his name in the media...All of which he done within the first 12 mins of his latest show.

    I don't give a **** what comedians say, so long as their is a structure and thinking behind it. But, Gervais' new show is utterly boring.



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