Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Danzy · 03-04-2022 5:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118873352#Comment_118873352

No I'm not a Russian bot, I think that the best tech in the world should be given to the Ukraine forces and that given the political instability that this war may lead to that NATO intervention in the Ukraine may be warranted and that every effort should be made to ensure as many Russian soldiers are killed as is possible.

Pointing out that Putin is a gentle pussycat compared to the Soviet Union leaders under which he was formed isn't a good thing about him but how incredibly murderous Communist Russia was.

That shouldn't be white washed from history and it largely is.

MonkieSocks · 03-04-2022 5:40pm

PrzemoF · 03-04-2022 5:43pm

Can we keep watching what's happening in Ukraine and keep thinking "we are not going in to avoid escalation"? What would be an escalation if civilians are tied and shot in the back of the head? Raped, mutilated, burned, tortured and then driven over with a tank? It can't get any worse except the numbers going up, but they are going up anyway.

P.S. German president organised concert in his Berlin residence with Russian singers (among others) and invited Ukrainian ambasador...

P.S.S a Polish priest said during a mass in Poland today it's all fault of USA and now USA is trying to blame Russia. I can't comment on that...

Jinglejangle69 · 03-04-2022 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875140#Comment_118875140

This isn’t a football thread.

brickster69 · 03-04-2022 5:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875073#Comment_118875073

Why would NATO attack Russia when they have not invaded a NATO member ?

MonkieSocks · 03-04-2022 5:46pm

Curious_Case · 03-04-2022 5:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874799#Comment_118874799

They've only waving the prospect of early lifting in order to make it obvious that Putin's only interest is land grabbing and they know he doesn't want to be seen to have been forced to negotiate. It may be so that he can't say "why negotiate, the sanctions are here for the foreseeable future?"

TheValeyard · 03-04-2022 5:50pm

If anything, when word reaches Mariupol of the massacres and war crimes., something will become clear very fast. Surrender is a death sentence. Fight on.

technocrat · 03-04-2022 5:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875122#Comment_118875122

100% agree with you.

03-04-2022 6:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874969#Comment_118874969

Gadaffi didn't end up at the end of rope and there were a lot of calls for a full investigation into his exjudicial death at the hands of his captors. None for Sadam but some for the killing of his defence lawyer.

odyssey06 · 03-04-2022 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875171#Comment_118875171

The NATO nuclear powers and Russia signed a treaty when Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons. If they wanted to respond in kind to a Russian attack on Ukraine they could cite that treaty.

"It gives signatories justification if they take action, but it does not force anyone to act in Ukraine."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

03-04-2022 6:28pm

Seems that declaration wasn’t worth the paper it was written on. Symbolic international declarations without anything to back them up.

It also raises the question of whether anything that Russia signs up to actually means anything.

03-04-2022 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875294#Comment_118875294

He ended up at the end of a stick(up his bum) when he was dragged from the storm drain and killed by the mob

03-04-2022 6:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874976#Comment_118874976

They did reduce the excuse quite substantially. Also rub their greedy hands? It’s the public purse, not a company. The money goes into the exchequer and is used to fund public expenditure.

rogber · 03-04-2022 6:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874892#Comment_118874892

Only if it's done in Russia. The EU will just continue to tweet, as they did today, about "perpetrators of war crimes will be held responsible!" when we all know that nothing of the sort will happen.

Wibbs · 03-04-2022 6:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874879#Comment_118874879

Money talks. Here's a list of companies still operating in Russia as of the other day and they're not all Chinese or close to it.

Koch Industries. Not a shock

Société Générale. French bank.

Association Familiale Mulliez. Another French crowd with lots of different outlets.

Cloudfare. US company.

Glencore. A Swiss/British oil and gas mashup

Raiffeisen Bank International. An Austrian bank.

Plus too many western nations, Germany a perfect example, thought that bringing the Russians in through trade would calm them down and bring them into the fold. A fold they quite simply don't want to be a part of. Russia is an empire not a nation and they don't want to play back of the class status in a setup like the EU. The good business makes goodfriends and the appeasers completely missed this point. Never mind a few of them appear to have been, let's just say, not neutral. Which ex German leader is currently living in Moscow with a high up position in their biggest oil company.... The Russians played them like a fiddle, played their history like a fiddle too* and we're hearing the tune now.

*the Germans are so paranoid and apologetic about a certain Austrian corporal, a paranoia hammered into them from kindergarten over the generations since WW2 ended. After WW1 the Treaty of Versaille really didn't work, so after WW2 the keep them guilty forever approach worked so much better. Earlier in the thread someone reckoned they'd like to be like Switzerland, "neutral". IMHO it's far more about not looking like turning into the Germany of the 1930's. That out of this they're making noises and moves to rearm is huge in the face of that.

rogber · 03-04-2022 6:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874876#Comment_118874876

In case you didn't realise, Assad is still in power while several hundred thousands of people have died under him. So 2/4 on that list are doing just fine.

Wibbs · 03-04-2022 6:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874892#Comment_118874892

Never going to happen.

03-04-2022 6:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875347#Comment_118875347

Between that and the gunshot wounds

riffmongous · 03-04-2022 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874710#Comment_118874710

I don't think it's anything to do with any 'Soviet' ethos, Russian armies have acted that way since forever. Read about their behaviour in the Caucasus or Manchuria and it's the very same, rape, looting and murder.

Mad_maxx · 03-04-2022 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874969#Comment_118874969

Gaddafi got a bayonet up the butt by a feral mob ,Sadamm had a respectable official execution

Curious_Case · 03-04-2022 6:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875435#Comment_118875435

No argument from me, I was referring to the land grab attempt, the reason why they were sent in.

Wibbs · 03-04-2022 7:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875205#Comment_118875205

I'll make a prediction now TV - and I'm well aware that with the passions running high at the moment this will not be a popular one at all - when the dust has finally settled and historians take over and pick apart the ruins of this calamity, in western much more Ukrainian in makeup areas the war crimes will be pretty much all on Russia's bloody hands, but in areas like the Donbas and yes Mariupol too, IE anywhere with more of a mix of Russian and Ukrainian separatists/nationalists there will be war crimes on both sides of this. I'd bet the contents of my bank accounts in this(about 3 fiddy).

Like I said this won't be even close to a popular view now we're all caught up in the Them/Us positions, but read up on the back and forth in the Donbas civil war since 2014. Whataboutists were rattling on earlier in the thread about Yemen and other conflicts not getting attention, but the Donbas civil war going on for years is another war bugger all of us were even aware of until Russia invaded Ukraine proper this February. A war that displaced over a million people and killed at least 15,000, injuring at least double that. Of those displaced; over 600,000 voluntarilty went to Russia, 70,000 odd to Belarus, 800,000 voluntarily went to Ukraine(or beyond).

Wibbs · 03-04-2022 7:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875382#Comment_118875382

Yep. This fallacy that autocrats usually die screaming is dubious. The majority don't.

Snooker Loopy · 03-04-2022 7:04pm

Nazis on parade in Berlin today. Except they are Russian, not German.

These people have access to all the reporting coming out of Ukraine. They know what is happening. They actively support genocide.

A grotesque bloodlust pollutes the minds of the Russian people. Russia needs to end as a state. It needs to be broken up.

https://twitter.com/e8QVRXlmqrNjYaj/status/1510593281373216770

Wibbs · 03-04-2022 7:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875464#Comment_118875464

A grotesque bloodlust pollutes the minds of the Russian people.

When anyone makes a statement like that about a people it shows they're capable of demonstrating the exact same idiocy as those they claim to be superior to and have lost any higher ground to lecture them from.

liamtech · 03-04-2022 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875456#Comment_118875456

Id agree to a certain extent. Crimes may well have been committed by both sides - but for me there are several important caveats

The Donbas war was instigated by Russia. As with many tyrannical dictatorships throughout history, Russia need an 'other' - a group to blame and rail against. The looked at a pre-existing condition in Donbas - mixed nationalities and identities, and they incited 'their people' (ethnic Russians) to act as they did, and attempt to cede from Ukraine proper. And that created a reaction in the form of the Azov/Ukrainian nationalists. Horrible things happened, and that is obviously worth highlighting - but i view the conflict as being instigated by Russia - im not saying there werent extremists on both sides - there probably were - but the 'conflict' is a real-time fiction that served Russian interests
In terms of possible war crimes perpetrated by Ukraine - i could certainly see POW's being mistreated, and possibly executed. And i could see less concern shown for ethnic Russians, especially those who support the LPR DPR. But that is a far way from what we are seeing in Bucha, and Mariupol. Reports of dead women, naked, partially burned. Young girls being hospitalized with 'vaginal and anal tears' - mass graves of civilians - civilians targeted and shot where they stood - we have seen absolutely no evidence of anything so heinous being committed in the name of Ukraine
One could say there could be degrees of war crimes - and thus far (imho) the scales are tipped well over toward Russia having perpetrated the lion share, and most vile of these
Thanks to the actions of Russia, and the behavior of Russian diplomats (and their foreign ministry) - i would view with skepticism, any reports of crimes committed against Russia during this war. They are accusing Ukraine of staging many of those crimes which were obviously committed by Russia - i think if anyone does end up staging anything, it will be the Russians

Like i said i tend to agree with you but its not even close to black and white. Still though, your point is well made

cnocbui · 03-04-2022 7:30pm

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1510670156158148613

No bloodlust, just cold premeditation and will to kill large numbers of civillians and to try and hide the evidence.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1510655782496440321

sjb25 · 03-04-2022 7:34pm

Im sure there has been crimes on both sides but it seems russia has acted the worst maybe from desperation

To be fair to the ukrainians when you are being invaded/occupied it would boil down to one thing

03-04-2022 7:37pm

It's amazing how the 'both sides' arguments crop up so much. I mean, the Ukrainians were sitting there minding their own business and Russia rolled an army in, destroying cities, killing what will probably be thousands but, yup... both sides.. has to be both sides, right?!

If you get punched in the face by some psycho on the way home, you were probably asking for it I suppose too?

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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