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Picard 2x05 - 'Fly me to the Moon' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,921 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    This season in particular it's very obvious how much Stewart needs to be kept out of the action.

    Picard and Data was always a thing though as was Picard and his nephew and Wesley so he is all for kids when he has a connection.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Liberty_Bear


    Picard adds to it with his experience as the captain. If they chose someone new then the series would not have the allure. My thinking is they will remove Picard at the end and maybe leave Seven in charge if Patrick Stewart gives up on the role. Loved the light hearted banter between Rafi and Seven, added a nice touch but the Borg queen getting shot ..I went fu*kin hell, I didnt see that coming!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,601 ✭✭✭corkie


    @Liberty_Bear You do know there is only 3 Seasons of which all have been filmed?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,800 ✭✭✭Evade


    Last season it was just weird how much was made of Data's death affecting Picard but the dozens (hundreds?) of other officers he lost under his command, including his one time and possibly last best friend Jack Crusher, didn't faze him as much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Liberty_Bear


    I actually didnt! But now I know! I was going along the lines of Enterprise where Michael worked herself up to team captain. And Picard makes reference to the Enterprise and Kirk so knowing his past experience he relayed his experience on to the 'Supervisor'. But thanks for that link, I'll have a read!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,921 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    He risked everything to save Data that one single officer in First Contact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,223 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Michael? Enterprise? You meant Discovery right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,800 ✭✭✭Evade


    It's a little more complicated than that. If he didn't try rescue Data there was a chance he would be assimilated and prevent first contact like the fake out at the end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Liberty_Bear


    Mea culpa yes..sorry! (is there an embarassment emoji!)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,598 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I still can't help but see this as a TNG two parter or an Enterprise 3 parter. I get fans like a bit of crossover and nods/winks but this is taking the piss. Its also painful to watch Picard try to do anything, a great actor but reduced to this, could the writers not have written it better, leave him with the ship, leave him with the queen, watch him try to hold it together as an aging captain, trying to restrain his anger for the borg against the need to get home or fix the timeline. Lots of great avenues to go down. Also Brent Spiner is done to death, let it go, not everything has to be connected. It could have been a decent 3 part mini series, now its making Discovery look like high level art. Don't get me wrong, all of the actors are great, the choices of them were great and I love their acting (except the romulan kid but I blame the directors for that). But the waffle to make a 3 part story into a tolerable 10 part story, solely by fluffing historical fans is jsut rubbish.

    Sadly I will still watch it but I really shouldn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,921 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    On Spiner I was saying we had way too many fking Soongs about 3 Soongs back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Liberty_Bear




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,245 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    I Agree Eleanor was terrible. Did not look Romulan at all. Looked like he had just come off the set of Lord of The Rings.

    No great loss. I hope he does not come back.

    As for still watching it nothing wrong with that at all compared to Discovery which really is trash.

    At least Picard the series has improved in season 2 unlike Discovery in any of its seasons.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭Rawr


    A bit weaker this time, but still thankfully a good watch. Jurati was less annoying this week, which was welcome, but the Borg Queen herself is now taking her spot as the most annoying character on this show. She's gone past the Cartoon Villianess stage on Voyager to this campy shadow of that.

    Her failure to assimilate that Police Officer didn't make any sense. She had the nanoprobes for it, and having a working drone would have made it much easier for her to also take Jurati. Jurati's "assimilation" is also pretty annoying. Having the Borg Queen secretly hijack Jurati smacks of the annoying Tumor Ghosts they liked to write into Greys Anatomy episodes. I keep coming back to that hospital drama, because I fear that this is the standard for most of the new crop of screen writers. I fully expect the Borg Queen to be chumming up with Jurati as this annoying "Imaginary Friend" who she will have to talk to.

    Picard's reasoning for Jurati to be their person at the NASA Gala also gave me flashbacks of how they used to inject contrived reasons for Micheal to be main crew member to be involved in a given Discovery mission. It did not feel natural and even in-script they sort of question this. It could be partly bad writing, or even some kind of screen-time guarantee since Alison Pill has second billing in the credits. I hope they improve there.

    Despite all those rants, still watchable, and still hopefully able to stick the landing when we can get to the season end cliffhanger. I have fears, because I sense their bad habits are starting to break though an otherwise very solid beginning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,921 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Why should it not be Jurati ?

    Don't know where people get these notions about contracts and credit placing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭Rawr


    It's more a gut-feeling than anything concrete, and of course could easily be based on nothing at all. When I noticed that her name came right after Steward's it just made me wonder why. Typically in a Trek show that would usually be where the actor playing the First Officer would go, or more to the point the show's second lead. Jurati seemed to be more of a secondary side-kick in Season 1, and yet also got second billing for some reason. Higher position in the billing can be sometimes quite important to hollywood actors, I'm guessing because people's attention starts to glaze over after the first 2 or 3 names in the intro. Getting the higher billing without a role that matches, suggests the possibility of some form of deal.

    I'll sometimes cart out this little example of how silly things can get:

    This interesting arrangement of text was the result of arguments / negotiations between McQueen and Newman about who got "first" position on the billing for "The Towering Inferno". Eventually they settled on McQueen being the first on the left (because some people read that way) and Newman getting the higher position, because some people read that way. You'll even notice that Newman's picture is slightly higher than McQueens. It's not the worst poster in the world, but it's kind of all over the place for the sake of ego.

    That's why I start getting a bit concerned when I think I detect this behavior in a Trek show, where an actor's ego might get in the way of the quality of the production itself. Hopefully this is not the case with Alison Pill and that Picard continues to be a good watch.

    Apologies for my segway into this kind of stuff. For some reason in the later years of TNG-era (Specifically in DS9 & Voyager) I had started to get interested in how the cast contracts actually worked in Trek shows. I had started to learn how head-lining actors would somehow be guaranteed a line in any given episode. You wouldn't notice this in TNG, but I had started to pick up on them making up reasons for Quark or Neelix to turn up when the plot didn't really need them. Felt like a case of the plot serving the cast instead of the other way around. I guess my interest in this sort of thing followed me forward into the current batch of shows :P



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,800 ✭✭✭Evade


    Contracts dictating positions in credits/poster and relative screen time has been a thing in Hollywood since at least the 70's. If it's not alphabetical or order of appearance there's been some negotiation of who goes where. It's the also reason you sometimes see the last person billed as "and also starring" because it's seen as more prestigious than anything else after second billing.

    Towering Inferno is the earliest case I can think of where Newmann and McQueen contractually had to have an equal number of lines and also resulted in the off set in the billing on the poster because about half of people will read top to bottom and the other half will read right to left.

    The kicker is it's not necessarily the actor demanding these things but their agents/management because more prestigious clients means more money for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,800 ✭✭✭Evade


    Snap @Rawr

    Also weird thing I just noticed, the post time is UTC but the edit time is IST



  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    why didn't he tell Guinan that they had, met before in a previous time travel encounter?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,251 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    I think the placement of Alison Pill would be about right. I would only put Jeri Ryan ahead of her due to her prior Trek work but if she wasn't in the main credits in season 1, bumping Alison down to slot Jeri in would probably be a bad idea. Of course the other compromise for bigger names who don't want to be seen as third or fourth billed is getting the final "And" or "With" credit.

    Looking at the opening of season 1 on youtube we have Patrick Stewart, Alison Pill, Isa Briones And Harry Treadaway.

    Season 2 has Patrick Stewart, Alison Pill, Jeri Ryan, Michelle Hurd, Evan Evagora, Orla Brady, isa Briones And Santiago Cabrera.

    Isa got moved down likely to having a smaller role and Santiago got the "And" credit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,921 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Its honestly all in your head. You are pulling this "possible ego" thing out of nowhere based on nothing. The show doesn't have a 1st officer so can't got that way and the 1st officer rarely ended up as the second biggest character in the show so not sure where you get that from either.

    I think maybe you just don't like Pill and are letting your imagination run wild.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,223 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    You mean to tell me that people actually see these credits and don't just skip over?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,921 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I watch them once then skip. DS9 might be the only exception because the tune is amazing. If I try watch Voyager I just start laughing at Tiny Planet



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Sigh. It had started out so well n' all.

    It's like they think the audience are idiots; cos despite scenes set in France, with a proper Frenchman speaking French ... oh Jean Luc's ancestor has to have an English accent. In fact they all do, ha. Cos sure how would we know she's related? JFC. And let's not bother giving Buzz Picard any actual backstory; she's depressed that'll do, we known this cos someone else tells Picard / the audience she is. That's not to belittle the condition on my part but the manner of using it to handwave away a sudden cancellation of a big space flight was glib and reductive.

    And one day, big science machines will stop printing out blinking "99% accurate" messages to really hammer home the big science machine no work good. Why rely on framing, score and acting when a big science machine can blink a message.

    And I also don't know why, but those fingerless leather gloves worn by Raffi really annoy me.

    Grrr.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I Agree Eleanor was terrible. Did not look Romulan at all. Looked like he had just come off the set of Lord of The Rings.

    It occurred to me the other day that Eleanor is a female name so I googled it and found his name is actually Elnor. Then again, Romulans aren't human so Eleanor could very well be a male Romulan's name for all I know lol.

    Anyway hope he stays dead, but since I never get what I want that means he's coming back to life sooner or later.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Stewart too old. His acting is not great now. I agree writing is poor.

    Did we really need to drag up Brent spinner again?

    Discovery has its flaws but its better than this.

    Personally Im getting to the point that they should wrap up the franchise.

    They got lucky with TNG and DS9. I actually liked discovery season 1 and 2.

    But it's just Picard is just nostalgia. Nothing new.

    Discovery went too 1 big enemy per season and is just too boring as a result.

    I first started watching this franchise late 1970s.

    Time to cash out and walk away I think



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,921 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    You can cash out any time you like.

    I do kind of agree that despite all the hype Star Trek is a bit like the Simpsons where it has actually had way more sht seasons than good ones at this stage. Even the good shows had sht series like 1-2 of both DS9 and TNG and a serious amount of TOS is only good when looked at through a lens of "of it's time".



  • Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭eadrom


    A good critique again -

    I thought they were maybe a bit harsh last time but there's not really anything I disagree with in this one. Almost wish they weren't so good at pointing it all out though!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,800 ✭✭✭Evade


    I completely glossed over the Europa Io thing until they pointed it out.



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