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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 35,957 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    And it continues to be wrong. Three weeks ago I told you there was a genocide taking place and you ridiculed the notion. But anybody with a basic knowledge of how fascism and war proceed could have told you what was happening and would happen.

    Russia called Ukrainians Nazis in order to dehumanise them, to legitimise genocide. The mobile crematoria were brought not for the bodies of Russian Nazi troops, but to burn Ukrainian civilians.

    As far as I can see your primary goal on these threads seems to be to insist on respect for and absolving of Russia, and a thinly veiled attempt at both sidesing this barbaric Russian war.

    There is no respect due to Russia here. None at all. Russia and its regime and its people, who are drunk on rampant irredentist nationalism - which is bloodlust - are an existential threat to Europe and the world, just like Nazi Germany was. It is that bad. They are scum. And calling them out as the scum they are is the only rational human reaction for powerless individuals who look on at this in horror, of which I am one.

    Putin and the Russians have no intention of stopping. Putin will go back and reorganise Russian society on the same lines Hitler did with Germany, a society entirely geared towards military conquest of Europe. He will continue to genocide Ukrainian civilians. The worst is yet to come. And he will continue to threaten nuclear weapons.

    What respect is due to that "position" and the people who support it? None.

    The problem cannot ever be solved until the problem is confronted.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yup and the Red Cross, EU investigators and the High Commission of Human Rights of the UN. Putinbots all. Given we're Irish here, or most of us, how easily we forget our own Donbas up north back in the day and how it wasn't as simple as Irish Americans thought. Only the Unionists/Republicans were murdering terrorists/freedom fighters[Delete as applicable depending on side asked].

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,468 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Who's to say this isn't an order from above - wouldn't surprise me...leave no man alive!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    I agree with everything you said. Certainly, pre-existing conditions in East Ukraine were fragile. And yes the Russians used this to their advantage. Their actions in 2014 in Donbas (to say nothing of Crimea) were the equiv of Downing street arming the LVF and UVF, and encouraging them to 'express their Britishness' - then look shocked and appalled when their opposite numbers responded.

    And your point on Putin's supposed 'Anti-Nazi' credentials is apt. I posted a while ago that he personally (yes, personally, by executive order) awarded a Pro Russian Nazi, the 'Hero of the Russian Federation' award - posthumously


    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67920 link appears currently broken but the award was given

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    As far as I can see your primary goal on these threads seems to be to insist on respect for and absolving of Russia,

    If that's what you understand, and I use the word advisedly, from my posts on this thread then I would suggest your reading comprehension is on a par with your understanding of what genocide means. And no, it still doesn't mean what you think it means, but it's an easy word to throw around when the blood's up and you want to get it higher. Like "nazi" and "scum" and "bloodlust" applied to an entire people. Irony seems to escape you too as that's precisely how a certain prick in the Kremlin framed this crime against Ukraine and her people to Russians.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭sjb25


    Wasters the lot of em hard men against civilians but have turned and ran now



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    +1 The comparisons between the Troubles in the North are pretty close alright Liamtech, save for the scale of course. London supported the Unionists, Dublin the Nationalists and a trragedy unfolded over "flegs". Though Ukraine's support for their Nationalists over the last 8 years, at least the extremists and Far Right ones, dropped off remarkably quickly since Maidan.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,405 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Respectfully: I don't think someone would be arguing that if Britain+NI or whatever (sorry) had said '**** it, they're Nazis,' leveled Belfast to the ground with artillery, bombed the hospitals and churches, raped the girls, left the bodies in the torture rooms and in the streets and then just fucked off with all the loyalists while this all blew over at the UN.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Todays update from the ISW:-

    "Russian forces will likely require a lengthy operational pause to integrate reinforcements into existing force structures in eastern Ukraine and enable successful operations but appear unlikely to do so and will continue to bleed their forces in ineffective daily attacks"




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    You missed this part: "save for the scale of course". And the English blew the crap out of central Dublin with artillery in 1916

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,922 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Yeah they give Mariupol a matter of days. Extraordinary resistance for the length of time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,405 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    What/who/where were they targeting with the artillery? I don't know anything specifically about the artillery or the damage. Indiscriminate fire could certainly be considered genocidal, a war-time hate-crime.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Absolutely - and it should be noted that no matter how bad things got during the troubles- at no point did the UK 'Annex Donegal' - lay siege to Dublin and Cork - and claim that it was a 'special military operation to De-IRA the Dublin Government'

    The troubles were awful - its one of the reasons i become vitriolically angry about brexit re-inflaming some tension around the border/protocol issues.

    But of course others insist on taking the valid analogy to new extremes

    The comparison stands when discussing the preconditions in East Ukraine and Donbas - two communities that had a turbulent relationship - enter Russia - And sadly it explodes into armed conflict. I agree with you too that Ukraine was doing quite a lot to reduce tensions prior to the invasion.

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    Again, both sidesing.

    Your logic is: those who hate the regime and the people (and their supporters) who are carrying out a genocide against an entirely innocent people are thus themselves as bad as the genociders.

    You demand forgiveness and understanding for the genociders. Hey, see it from their side.

    If you cannot see the utter stupidity of this position, I can't help you.

    Thanks for the condescension, by the way. You have little to be condescending about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,536 ✭✭✭brickster69


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Off to the scrappers?

    I'm surprised they would be recovering damaged equipment (because all evidence so far shows everything damaged abandoned?) perhaps ones that broke down before they made it into the field?




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭JoChervil




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The western world,that you are part of.

    Would you like to be under Putins regime instead maybe



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Treatment of animals has been horrendous for sure - i wont share the tweets i have seen - bar one - which was uplifting - and its probably the only tweet i was willing to show my daughter (she greeted it with a loud awe - quite right too)


    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Poor losers and taking revenge,its amazing what war does to you when all your comrades gets killed and you have no idea what you are fighting for



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Israel backtracking on the earlier above Tweet?

    "Asked if the Foreign Ministry’s official position was that Russia had committed war crimes in Ukraine, a spokesman replied: “No. It’s a tweet by the ambassador regarding the photos. He didn’t blame Russia.”"



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,939 ✭✭✭blackcard


    How is genocide/war crimes going to be proved? Video evidence? Pathology? Eyewitnesses? Confessions?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Seeing these Russian atrocities carried out against Ukrainian civilians will enrage the Ukrainian military and it will have the knock on effect of them doing atrocities on Russian military. This will in turn lead the Russians to act more aggressive on Ukrainian prisoners and civilians. This war is going to get a whole lot more bloody and disgusting then sadly it already is. Only thing is people should not be surprised by this sadly, sadly as a people we haven't evolved to not be cruel to other human beings. War brings out the beast in good people and they do the most horrendous things to people and you have the most horrible people who in war time can enact the worse possible things on people. This has always been the case throughout history and is still the same today and probably in 100 years time when people who are alive after us will be saying the same thing about some other conflict in the world they can't believe what people can do during a war to fellow people. It's disgusting and should be a thing of the past but sadly it's just something that has happened since war has been a part of the human race and sadly so sadly will happen again when we're all dead and gone.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The dumb **** will have it written somewhere, and the Yanks may well have a copy, but I'd love to know what the plan actually was. Were they expecting to roll in, install a puppet government in each place as they passed through and have the approval or at least apathy in the local population for them to start summarily executing thousands of people with their mobile crematoria and built-to-spec mass graves?

    That kind of level of delusion on the Russians' part is **** baffling and also pretty worrying. They're so clearly detached from reality that I can't see how they can be treated as rational actors. I live in Ireland, I can't even read Cyrillic and yet the one thing I expected from the Ukrainians was a fight to the last man. Yet the Russians actually spent 5+ months moving their army across their country in full public view all based on the idea that the Ukrainians would just let them. Maybe it's just that they assume the rest of the world are as apathetic and fatalistic as they are?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,440 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Not trying to excuse, condone or any " other" . The Russian army has been taking a right pasting so far in the war in Ukraine. Burned out tanks, APC's etc, are common sight, as are the bodies of Russian soldiers. These are all pretty gruesome sights, and all the more so to their friends and comrades. ( not to mention their Families) but all the time the pressure is growing, and then it explodes, and the result is a killing spree like we have seen in Bucha. Bucha holds bad memories for the Russians, it was one of the places where the advance on Kyiv was stopped dead in its tracks, elite units and all. The street's were littered with with Russian military hardware, a complete column of armored vehicles gutted. And of course, many dead or injured. But it was also a huge "Loss of Face" and humiliating experience for supposedly one of the finest combat units in the Russian Army, the Airborne Paratroopers. And now it seems this atrocity is their revenge.



This discussion has been closed.
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