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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Jaysus they might as well be done with it and just rename everything Pravda.

    It reads like something uncle Joe would have been proud of, getting rid of the intellectuals, the rulers, throwing in some ethnic clensing for good measure.

    Soviets idea of liberation was stand back and let the Germans slaughter the locals who dared fight the Germans, then come in and mop up, slaughtering the remaining officer, educated and intellectual classes, whilst partaking in wholesale raping of anything female.

    Then setup a puppet regime of quislings.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Northernlily


    Maybe someone was reading here. Better late than never @ Kerry group. Was it really worth staying though?

    The brand is tarnished in my mind anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    Now we know, why Ukrainians fight so hard. They know their enemy too well. It was not only fight for freedom, but fight for their lives. If they surrendered in February majority of them would be in mass graves now. They had no choice, they had to fight for physical survival. And this is a very strong motivation, much stronger than freedom. It's down to basic instincts. Some people are able to trade freedom for "easier" life, while here it's freedom or no life at all.

    I think Ukraine will fight even stronger now after all those war crimes were revealed. They have nothing to lose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭goldenmick


    @Wibbs - And damned right I hold my existence and the existence of Europe, America, Asia and much of this planet above more "local" if appallingly tragic and criminal horrors.


    That single sentence speaks more about your "I'm alright Jack, sod everyone else" attitude than all your thousands of fancy words as excuses in the defence of allowing slaughter and horrific abominations to continue unchecked. After all, it's not your terrified daughter, probably not yet in puberty, who's been violently raped by several soldiers and then ruthlessly killed likely whilst hysterically screaming and crying for her mother, and in a final indignation her lifeless body is crushed by a tank. That's not to mention the thousands of other children and civilians that similar atrocities have happened to, and will continue to happen going forward. And before you say well there are atrocities in wars throughout the world, this one is more evil as we are allowing a disgusting animal to perpetually blackmail us with the nuclear threat. Our morality seems to have flown right out of the window. Will there be centuries more of this simply because we wont properly challenge it?

    Compassion and empathy without action means nothing to the mangled bodies of those little mites lying on the streets of Ukraine. Arming the Ukraine, applying sanctions and making Russia a pariah, will not stop Putin. He's even more emboldened now than ever as he sees the West as feeble and afraid. Russia will always be a danger, now and forever, and they will never relinquish their nuclear armoury. A barbarian cannot be negotiated with. They only understand strength and force, so sadly you have to meet them with a little of the same.

    If - and that's a big if - a nuclear confrontation occurred as a result of sending Nato and/or US troops into the Ukraine, I'd rather have that as the last thing on my conscience than continue in silence as horror after horror unfolds.

    The day that Putin - or any other despot with the means - fires nuclear warheads, and quite possibly without any previous military confrontation, is the day you'll realise that appeasement of a bully is always a temporary thing. He will remain a bully and get progressively more violent unless he's stopped.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14 lukewarm06


    What's the story with the Aughinish Alumina Plant in Limerick?Will it continue business as usual..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,825 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    I don't think it would be a cold era 'EVERYONE GETS NUKED!' MAD scenario, but do think if it ever happened it would be something like the below:

    Russian rockets land on a military base in Poland, NATO then join the war.

    NATO declares a no fly zone and sends in air support, attacking the source of the rockets - Russia officially declares war on all NATO states.

    A column of NATO artillery moves into Ukraine and a Russian jet fires and detonates a small airburst tactical nuclear weapon as a show of force and to scare the bejasus out of NATO, destroying the artillery and escalating the whole thing to nuclear level.

    NATO then responds with a tactical nuclear weapon over Russian forces as a counter show of strength.

    This kind of back and forth with small yield nuclear weapons is how it could potentially begin and is a bit of a stepping stone to all out nuclear war. It's why those thermobaric bombs are so frightening - apart from their actual destructive power, using them is almost a stepping stone to tactical nukes.

    Edit - just to say, that's me being a Walter Mitty armchair general, I do not think the above will happen in any way and cool heads will hopefully prevail eventually and we'll see an end to this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,407 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Do we know if the Russians have a still a 'fail deadly' launch system that automatically responds to 2nd strike attacks? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand Any retaliation to a first strike could set off their automated systems and end the world. It could even be set off accidentally if Putin arms it in advance of his own first strike, and then it gets triggered by an incidental earthquake or other false alarm.

    Personally, after seeing the state of the Russian military hardware, it'd be skeptical that many of their nuclear warheads are still functional, but even if 1% were maintained, that is still 40 nuclear weapons traded between the US and Russia and whichever allies get sucked in.., enough to cause a conflagration the likes we haven't seen since the Dinos went tits up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    I agree with you.

    Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    If civilised world not respond, we can only expect worse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    I would have thought that seeing the images and reporting coming out of Bucha would easily be more than enough to kick the Israelis into condemnation on it's own given their history. Bucha is only about 20km away from Babi Yar after all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Lithuania expelling the Russian ambassador and closing the embassy:-




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    A total of 1,872 Nuclear Explosions to 1992

    (I don't know whether Hiroshima & Nagasaki are included)

    In total nuclear test megatonnage, from 1945 to 1992, 520 atmospheric nuclear explosions (including eight underwater) were conducted with a total yield of 545 megatons, with a peak occurring in 1961–1962, when 340 megatons were detonated in the atmosphere by the United States and Soviet Union, while the estimated number of underground nuclear tests conducted in the period from 1957 to 1992 was 1,352 explosions with a total yield of 90 Mt.

    Above paragraph is from a Wikipedia page



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    It's business as usual (for now anyway) it seems as they replaced the cancelled Rio Tinto supply of bauxite with West African suppliers, whatever happens to the plant if Oleg Deripaska finds himself on the EU sanctions list is unknown, though I can't see if putting the plant at risk (it's currently the largest Aluminia plant in Europe), mind you I think the plant was only secure for another few years anyway, perhaps the future operation will be reviewed in light of the circumstances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    These incidents are becoming systematic. From a BBC report:


    The drone footage shows three cars speeding along an empty main road just outside the Ukrainian capital Kyiv, when they suddenly turn around and race back - all except one.

    This white car turns, but then stops. A man steps out and raises his hands. Then his body falls to the ground. Moments later, Russian soldiers approach. An elderly woman and child leave the car, and a soldier walks them away.

    The man on the ground was Maksim Iovenko. The 31-year-old was shot dead by Russian forces that were positioned at the roadside. His wife Ksenia, who was in the car, was also killed.


    ....


    Then, on 7 March, they lost all power. With no electricity, heating or food, Maksim, Ksenia and other families staying in the area decided to return to Kyiv. They knew they risked running into Russian troops along the highway, but they thought they could make it through safely.

    Maksim's car was third in the convoy, made up of about 50 people in total, including other children. In the windows of his car, he had put handwritten signs on white paper that read: "Children." His friend was part of the same convoy, and it was his mother who was in the car with Maksim and Ksenia, and he was able to tell Sergiy what happened.

    When the shooting started, Maksim's car was hit. "The car's engine stalled," Sergiy says. "My son jumped out of the car, he raised his hands and started shouting that there was a child in the car, so that the child would be saved."

    It's not clear why the rest of the convoy fell behind the first three cars, but Sergiy believes many of those driving behind turned back when they saw the cars in front turning and heard the gunshots.

    After the shooting, Maksim's body was left on the highway and Ksenia's was left in the car. Maksim's son and his friend's mother were told by Russian soldiers to walk back along the road. When they got a safe distance from the Russian soldiers, she called her husband, who came to take them to safety. They returned to the dacha, and were evacuated safely to Kyiv the next day.


    IMAGE SOURCE,

    JEREMY BOWEN

    Image caption,

    A burned out car on the road where Maksim and Ksenia were killed

    The boy is with his grandmother in a safe location in Ukraine but away from Kyiv, where Sergiy remains.

    On Friday, Sergiy received a call informing him that the area had been re-taken by Ukrainian forces. There was more bad news.

    "They burned everyone. Burned the cars as well," Sergiy says.

    A team of BBC journalists taken to the same stretch of road saw many burned cars and bodies. Among them was Maksim's car, riddled with shrapnel and reduced to a shell by fire, with the burned remains of a body inside it and one on the road beside it, still wearing a wedding ring.


    Full report here




  • Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭goldenmick


    And Putin doesn't need the excuse of Nato or US boots on the ground in Ukraine to detonate one. If he sees this war drifting away from him then I can see him setting one off over Kyiv. He'll likely concoct some reason/excuse to the Russian public for doing so. And still the West wont get involved. The carnage will continue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    The system is not as automated as it sounds, it still requires the activation of the Cheget I believe, it certainly didn't unintentionally wipe out half the world in 1995 during the Black Brant scare - the only known incidence of a nuclear briefcase being activated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    I mean its incredible stuff - completely baffling. I mean we obviously see it as the vile fascistic nonsense that it is but its frightening to see it none the less.

    Its pure unadulterated fascism

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,825 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    There's zero reason for him to use nuclear weapons over what boils down to a land grab.

    If NATO become involved it's another thing entirely, but until that day, it's conventional all the way. Sure he can absolutely flatten Kyiv with conventional bombs if he wants. Why use nukes?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    "There's zero reason for him to use nuclear weapons"

    Don't be so sure, it is widely believed Russian policy allows an "escalate to de-escalate" policy which allows for the limited first use of nuclear weapons to attempt to end a conventional conflict on terms favorable to Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    This was reported in thread on the day it happened, which was nearly a month ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,825 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    If I'm not mistaken, the escalate to de-escalate notion is still in relation to a large scale conventional attack on Russia itself, that's why I had that 'over a land grab' part in my comment.

    I'm not sure if they'd stretch that to cover another country they are invading - hopefully not!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I don't think Putin wants to flatten Kyiv to any great extent. Kyiv could be thought of as the cradle of Slavic civilisation, and therefore for its symbolism alone is probably a place that Putin would want relatively intact. That's why my guess is that if the Russians do decide to up the ante even further, they'll go for gas rather than ordinance. If Putin sees the Ukrainians are traitorous vermin, and vermin who are well embedded, from his perspective the sensible option is to call Rentokil.



  • Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭ARX



    If they drove around with swastika flags they would. What the Russians have done in Bucha is what the Nazi Einsatzgruppen (death squads) did.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Ah yes, somehow I completely missed this one on the day and didn't notice the date in the article I linked. Bowden has been doing a fantastic job.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Did you not get enough attention from your other post?

    Bless you...



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Russian troops robbed President Zelensky's house on the island of Biryuchy in the Kherson region, also robbing hotels in Kyrylivka" https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/4-april-russian-troops-robbed-president-zelenskys-house-on

    How about Italy stop pretending they don't know that massive yacht Scheherazade is Putin's and they seize it, formally confiscate it and re-register it in Zelinskyy's name as compensation?




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I hope this is real and not just propaganda:




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    I'm amazed Filatov and the other kgb scumbags in the embassy haven't all been sent packing at this stage, especially with all the latest evidence of mass killing of children and civilians.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Don't think he has the ability to flatten Kyiv with conventual weapons.

    Ukraine have a steady resupply stream now, the Russians are running out, partly because a lot of their parts for their weaponry was manufactured in the Ukraine.

    Gut Laugh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,825 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    You also have lovely 'enhanced radiation weapons' like neutron bombs.

    Small hydrogen bombs that emit neutron radiation, killing everything but leaving infrastructure intact.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,825 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Unfortunately they could always go the WW2 type blitz approach and flatten it from the air with a load of bombers.



This discussion has been closed.
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