Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

A couple of things stand out here:

• Don't assume the value of your 60k will stay constant. They value of money is currently falling rapidly, and the money printing is continuing
• You will find people exactly like you on this forum waiting 1,2 and 3 years because "the crash is coming" for over a decade now. Make your decisions based on current conditions, in a way that can give you some certainty (i.e. a long term. fixed rate mortgage with a repayment you can afford). because predicting anything over a 2 year horizon right now is simply not possible.

I would strongly agree with your dad.

Everyone expects a recession to be like ‘08 but that was different and the main reason that it was such a deep recession was that the country ended up bankrupt and IMF and Germany dictated policies. Add on top a massive oversupply and loads of individual landlords that were forced to sell because they were unable to make mortgage repayments.

Any individual landlords today don’t have the same risk as LTV is substantially lower.

There have been loads of recessions in the past and only one saw a drop in property values.

Property as a % of pension funds is a very small percentage and young people also have pensions so it’s not just older generations.

If construction is considered high risk by the private sector, could the public sector step in and build on their own land. We know the private sector is really just looking for the state to cover their risk. Lets call there bluff and just take their employees for a few years instead

The government will employ private sector companies to build…it’s not like they will get civil servants to manage and employe builders as that would just be the equivalent to burning money in a big fire and getting practically nothing in return. To many committees would be required to decide on even the most simple decision.

This. The days of the civil service being able to project manage and build direct are long gone as it was all outsourced by successive governments. They simply no longer have the the personnel or the structures in place and to rebuild that capability now would be nigh on next to impossible.

Building at scale today is a sophisticated management & risk control exercise.

That is 350/ sqft or 4k/sqM. That is crazy. In Rural area three years ago build costs were 80/sqft.

There is one good thing the thing to cure high prices is high prices. I am getting vibes that there will be huge roll back on some of these projects not just in Ireland but accross the world

Interesting time ahead anyway, main contractors getting cold feet about government projects and getting locked into fixed price contracts, more than a few projects in all sectors getting shelved due to rising costs, contractors losing their shirt on projects they are locked into and the government are going to need to find a few extra billion if they want to build everything they've promised.

Cost of living bound to take some heat out of the private housing market but potentially could be some bargains to be had with BER F/G type homes, not very appealing with heating costs heading skyward.

Dermot Bannon, Home if the year and similar programs have a lot to answer for. These were grand when building costs were cheaper.

My older brothers and sister older than me got houses build were 100-120 sq meters. By the 90's it was 150-180sqM. But it's crazy now with people looking to get 250-300+ size houses.

People forget that all these prices are builders finish. Add another 50-100k to get the house livable in

Globalism is unsustainable on many levels: environmentally, financially, demographically and even ethically. Humans are a tribal, group-orientated species. We're not meant to be plugged into this global nightmare factory as we are through social media and the economic models that we follow. The former has already driven many people utterly insane! Something has to give, or we'll be living in Mega-City One...

our model of debt based monetarism is actually a good one, but typical humans, we ve fcuked it up, we ve confined debt forgiveness to the more plutocratic entities in society, and enforced debt repayment everywhere else, this is starting to collapse now, we ll end up in a world war if we re not careful!

That is because renovation now is nearly a complete rebuild. People are tearing out floors, walls ceilings etc. Then you have the risk of coming accross unforseen issues. Steel and lintels being put in to have panoramic views. Velux windows and roof lights. New windows and doors, complete rewireing, plumbing and heating system over hauls. As I said Dermot Bannon has a lot to answer for.

Guest room must have ensuite as well. I have seen plans for a house lately. Young couple, both in there mid 20's. Four bed house, living area 15X5 meters( I still have to convert to put the reality in it 50'X16'), second sitting room. Office, four bed rooms, two on suite, master bed room has massive walk in wardrobe, bathroom, shower in toilet in living area, utility and pantry. House is over 300/ sq meters. If it gets build they will be paying for it until they are 70. They end up scarficing a lot of there life for a house,( children, holidays etc) and will not be able to afford to retire until on there 70's.

Saw plans for another house on a sloped site. Bedrooms on lower level. Living area is above bedrooms. No issues with that, but it's footprint is nearly double the size of the bedroom footprint. You are into structural steel and mass concrete. To top it all off they have a 15X2 meter balcony off the upstairs living area. With its glass tailings it has probably added 50k to price of house.

Some of the sh!t going on is hilarious if it was not so stupid.

Well, steel and roof lights might be optional but a lot of the expenses are necessary due to the age of properties and the current building regs. We knew we needed replumbing and rewiring because the house is 50 years old. But we’ve also been told we have to tear up the screed downstairs to add insulation and change the heating system. New windows are required because ours are old and the seals are failing but we would have needed to upgrade for BER reasons anyway. There doesn’t seem to be much choice about all these elements.