Where do Irish professional rugby players come from?

That's ... odd.

Very interesting and useful, despite the caveats you've acknowledged.

AFAIK Heffernan also moved to Blackrock from Ballina for Rug by reasons, but not sure if itwas for the Leaving Cert cycle or before that.

Ulster - Shea O'Brien, Bradley Roberts, Matty Rea, Ben Moxham, Andy Warwick.

Callum Reid joined from his club but was already known from underage Irish Rugby. Same with Eric O'Sullivan. Baloucoune went club - 7s - province. NOt quite sure about Aaron Sexton.

Can't find details about Academy players.

If we were to create/develop these areas it will only be through clubs combined with schools as it wont happen elsewhere without a serious connection to existing clubs. Hopefully the centres of excellence being built in provinces will help change/broaden make up of provincial squads...

Based on the thread it has appeared in and given the information in the OP this must be the stupidest post of all time on boards.ie

Spot on Syd.

I was also out at a schools rugby blitz today. well over 200 kids played rugby for 4 hours or so. and same thing about grounds. We had mix of kids who have been playing rugby in their clubs and schools all season(and many more before that) and there were lot more who were playing rugby games for the first time ever.

Its totally on those who can grasp the difference between the 2 statements you make but those who criticise rugby refuse to admit or refuse to see what actually is the case on the ground. Shame.

There has been a narrative going around for over a decade that rugby is up there with soccer and GAA in Ireland as a "game of the people"

This narrative has come from the media, from rugby fans, and from vested interests like the IRFU and their sponsors.

The evidence for this is the people who followed Munster when they were doing well, or the full houses for Ireland games.

But it can never be a "game of the people" if going to a expensive private school greatly enhance one's chances of getting to the pinnacle of the sport, i.e. playing professionally.

None of the other sports mentioned need a private education to greatly enhance a kids chances to make it to the top.

Of course there are other sports where wealth is handy to have like golf, tennis, rowing, cricket, motor sport etc, but none ever claim to be "games of the people".

In the US where you could have four sports that could legitimately be called "games of the people" the players come from some of the most deprived areas in the country.

And while the majority of the fans at college sports in the US may be middle class and white, the guys on the field are far from it.

So it doesn't matter how much time anyone here spent at kids blitzes today, unless the parents of those kids have deep pockets their chances of reaching the top of the game is very much hampered.

In an effort to define the tangible that has led to the development of players are you not overlooking the intangible and very relevant fact that children of lower socio economic households will have less parental involvement and interest in their children doing extra curricular activities.

Not only is there less interest in perusing activities for their children there is less money there to support them.

I can see this in my wider circles where friends come from some very wealthy backgrounds down to very poor backgrounds and while the kids might not be privately educated their parents spend massive money and time on their extra curricular activities while others wouldnt have them going beyond the local soccer or GAA club.

Maybe look at the parents of the current international squad and tell me how many of them work in Aldi, or are security agents in Dublin airport as opposed to well paid professionals. Very few i would wager.

I think looking at those figures you'd have to be sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich not to come to the conclusion that it is much easier for rich kids to make it as professional rugby players.

And while the system we currently have is clearly producing good players surely this top class coaching shouldn't be restricted to just the children of rich parents?

Firstly that is unfair on the children in question that could be equally as dedicated and talented as Fiachra from South Dublin but because Fiachra's parents can afford Blackrock College he's the one that'll end up making it.

Secondly even if that slightly moral issue doesn't bother you and you look at it from a purely cold player production viewpoint there must be some amount of untapped talent out there. Guys that play club rugby all over the country but never receive the top class, intense coaching the rich kids do. From the model that's in place at the moment you are essentially reducing our player pool down by about 95%. Surely that's not efficient.

Top club players are identified at u-15 level and brought into development pathways. They have S&C, nutritional advice and coaching from Leinster coaches. They may not have the same level of access as the schools but they are well looked after in terms of development.

Im not disagreeing with this point but is it not also the case that public schools with excellent GAA programs have much more access to players than clubs do, so is there a similar gap in players coming from these schools relative to club players?

I went to one of those rugby schools a long time ago and at the time we had no GAA and soccer was an after thought. At the time rugby was a mandatory part of the curriculum, you had to play until U14. It was stupidly anachronistic and thankfully that school has GAA today (and a few Dublin all Ireland winners) but it's still a rugby powerhouse. At the time the coaches were all teachers, a couple of whom knew what they were doing, but the main emphasis as far as most kids went was an exposure to muscular Christianity and to the mud.

Last year I put one of my kids into another school in Dublin for 6 months that we spent back in Ireland (from the US). He is rugby mad but because of Covid not much rugby was going on. But a few the coaches from a couple of these schools set up an informal training run in for kids interested in a touch run around and skills session 3 times a week. The coaches were mostly Kiwis who were coaching schools and playing club rugby, fellas who knew what they were doing. They were also plugged in enough that various Leinster and Ireland players showed up for a runaround with the kids a couple of times.

Some of the coaching my lad has been exposed to in the US has been pretty good, guys who played to a fairly high level in NZ/SA who live around here, and another few who've played on the US team, the rest are a bunch of amateurs like myself who know some drills, skills and tactics and know something about team spirit, inclusivity and rugby culture, but we aren't winning any national championships. My son felt that the coaching he got in Ireland from these schools coaches was just a much higher level entirely than what he's exposed to here. No comparison eventhough some of the coaches here are genuinely pretty good.

This is a huge difference, the fact that schools are recruiting internationally while clubs are relying on local volunteers, some of whom are great but most are probably enthusiastic amateurs like most of us.