Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Can a Doctor Refuse to See Unvaccinated Patients (non covid related)?

135

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Yes, one of my good friends in her 30's is on a medical card (and disability) due to a terrible degenerative condition. It is in no way an insult for her to be on a card. In fact she does not get nearly enough help from the State. The other poster implied it would be "bashing" her just to mention it. That is a reprehensible attitude



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,989 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I absolutely agree with your points , I just felt it important to highlight there is a very disturbing element across boards who rarely think before posting or consider people's genuine hardships and needs, resorting to hurtful and insensitive bashing etc . I can relate , deeply to your friends situation, my own not has severe .

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,034 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    There was a brief attempt to popularise them in the late 80s, largely for environmental reasons. The theory was that they would be cheaper to build and could be more locally and renewably sourced, would lead to less waste, and would in fact be safer in the event of a collision. Volkswagen (of course) produced a short run of a couple of thousand of the model - wooden body, wooden seats, wooden wheels, wooden engine, etc. Unfortunately, they wooden go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    That is absolutely not what Dakota Dan was implying by his post, nor was it implied by what was brought up in yours since you mentioned it in the context of somehow medical card owners not being aware of the current GP shortage. Considering medical card holders have to find a GP just like a paying user, and indeed is even harder to find one that accepts medical cards, moving the goalposts now when people are well aware of your post history is kidding nobody.

    I do not see it as an insult in the slightest, I also have one for long term medical issues and believe everyone should have one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I really doubt you've a scientific qualification



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    People who have long term medical issues tend not to be the ones going looking for doctors as they already have one. I don't have a regular doctor as I am thankfully healthy. The very odd time I might need to go, I'd basically just be ringing up to get an appointment somewhere locally. There is a medical centre not too far and I'd try there first and see whoever they had. If they were too busy and I couldn't wait, I might try another one which is further away. Actually, when I tested positive for covid, which was thankfully symptomless, I had to fill out a form which had a GP's name and I didn't have a specific one I could put so I googled and put down the name of one in the clinic where I last attended about 4 years ago.

    People with health issues will have regular visits/check-ups. If someone has a medical card and is a long term patient, they may not be aware of the difficulties of people who are trying to find ad-hoc private appointments. The person with the medical card is already signed up to a GP.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,002 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Existing medical card holders can easily find a new GP: they get a refusal from three, and the local HSE will then force a GP practise to enrol them.

    People who would quality for medical card if only they could find a GP sign the form, and people who would not qualify for one, often find it difficult to get a GP practise to enrol them - but this is a different legal issue from what this thread is about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Please explain your "understanding"

    Do you not even have a basic understanding of how the medical card scheme works?????

    I'm very surprised


    Plus I don't how you can conclude that it is nonsense that I haven't been to a doctor in a few years. I can list the points I made in the post and let you tell me why each of them are nonsense if you want? Anything else there ya don't like - maybe the fact that you have/had to fill in a doctor when you tested postive for Covid? Ya have issues with that as well?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    It's not all long term medical issues that get medical cards, and people with long term medical issues are more likely to be approached by people need advice on such things. Can we not just agree that the original post about GPs being aplenty was a silly comment made by an ignorant poster, who believed it for no other reason than ignorance instead of the rest of this nonsense?


    This post has nothing to do with what is being discussed. If anything, it just proves than medical card holders can be aware of GP shortages.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    A brief rough explainer of how the scheme works:

    1) You apply for a medical card

    2) You select a doctor. Once singed up under them, that doctor receives a fixed payment per year to be your GP.

    3) You attend that doctor. That is your doctor.

    Even if you are not ill, you do have a doctor. If you later become ill, you know who you are going to see as you are already a patient of that doctor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,989 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Just to add , you have to have a GP in the first place as they have to also sign the form ( small point) but important and currently I believe not easy to get a GP take you on , worth mentioning also the GP is named on the MC and its for use under their care, Hospital visits, appointments etc, Pharmacy linked to GP and out of hours GP services in the MC holders district.

    Changing a GP for a MC holder not at all straightforward, thankfully my own, excellent.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Why are you explaining how it works? I didn't even read the post because I've genuinely no idea what the point of that was since like I said, I have a medical card and you explaining to me the process that I have already gone through on more than one occasion is not in any way relevant to... well, anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Yes, your own GP might not take you on under the scheme and then you would then unfortunately have to find another one.

    It has gone away from the thread topic anyway. A big rigmarole for nothing. I did not say nobody on a medical card is aware of issues of getting a doctor to take you on as a new patient. I only said that, given a poster was apparently not aware of the issues, one reason for that might be if they had a medical card.

    Others can disagree with me and agree with that poster that GPs are 10-a-penny if they want.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Ave, I am fairly healthy. I have not been to the doctor in years. Lets assume for the sake of the argument that you are the same.

    Suppose we both become ill next week and need to attend a doctor. I will have to ring around to try to find a doctor to take me on and give me an appointment. That is where there can currently be difficulties. Those are the issues that were referred to - or at least as I understood them. I won't be a patient of anyone I ring so they might tell me that they are not accepting new patients. I'll possibly have to try a few places.

    When you ring your official medical card GP, they cannot tell you - "sorry, you haven't been here for 4 years and we aren't taking on new patients". You won't be ringing around trying to get someone to take you on as you already have one contracted to be your GP. You'll just go to that GP (even if you have to wait a bit for an appointment)


    I am not saying you might not be aware. I am simply saying that a possible reason that someone might not have experience of having to ring around might be that they already have a GP - even if they are not ill - because they are assigned to one under the scheme. I am also not complaining about the medical card scheme. I think it should be expanded.



  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭thegetawaycar


    Short answer.

    Doctor can refuse to see whoever they want.

    As it's a child involved it likely means this is the 6 in 1 or MMR vaccine, the doctor has a duty of care to his patients and having others that aren't vaxxed against diseases like measles is a risk and becomes more of one as they hit school age.

    If they feel that their medical opinion is being ignored and that their duty of care to others is at risk then it's best for both sides to find a new doctor



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 androlyn


    She is getting advice from a one of the worlds leading Gastroenterologist, who has been helping her and her child heal this past few years. Her GP has absolutely no expertise in this area and in his position, given the knowledge he has, he recommends the vaccine.

    This question is about whether the doctor has the right to do what he did, so your analogy about the electrician and comment on non medical people is irrelevant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 androlyn


    No.

    The chain of events were:

    Doctor informed my friend her babies vaccines were due.

    My friend asked questions her Dr couldn't answer, so she informed him she would speak with her gastroenterologist about it.

    My friend then informed her doctor her child will not be getting the 6in1 vaccine and she will assess the others in due course.

    Her doctor then told her if the child is not going to be vaccinated he will not be able to accommodate them at his practice as he only takes care of vaccinated people.


    That is literally it. Nothing more. Nothing less.



  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 11,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭MarkR


    Neither the patients sitting next to me nor the doctor are going to catch high blood pressure off me because I didn't go to the gym.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 42 androlyn


    I don't think what you highlighted there is applicable in this situation.

    Also the end of section 9 states:

     "If you decide to refuse treatment, you must explain your reasons to the patient and offer them an opportunity to review the decision and/or seek another opinion."

    The reason he refused was because he doesn't treat unvaccinated patients. That's not entirely an explanation - especially considering he couldn't answer any of the questions she had when she raised her initial concerns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,531 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    You've missed out a crucial step between paras (3) and (4).

    What did the gastroenterologist say, and how (if at all) does what the gastroenterologist said relate to your friend's decision to inform her GP that her child would not be getting the 6-in-1, etc?



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 androlyn


    The gastroenterologist has been treating my friend for an autoimmune illness. There's auto immune issues in her family and I believe something related to the gut, or microbiome diversity or something like that. Her own issues were triggered within days of receiving a tetanus shot so of course she is more alert now to potential effects . My friend has been healing wonderfully the past 2 years without medication under the care of her gastroenterologist after her own doctor was putting her own medication for life. Given her experience she had many questions for her doctor about the 6in1 vaccine for her child. When her doctor couldn't answer them she spoke to gastroenterologist who informed her that it is a potential risk to vaccinate her child given her history. Her gastro spent a long time with her, weighing up all the pros and cons (vax and unvax) including what was in the 6in1 vaccine and the chances of catching any of the disease it protects against, the treatment if she was unvaxed and caught it, etc. The gastroenterologist then left the ball in her court to disuses with her doctor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,531 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    . . . but rather than discuss it with her doctor she simply informed her doctor that the child would not be getting the 6-in-1?

    No offence, but as you paint it here she is not following the advice either of her gastroenterologist or of her GP. And I admit I am a bit puzzled as to why she would be aggrieved at not being seen by a GP whose advice she does not wish to take or follow. Why does she want to see this GP?



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 androlyn




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I expect the Doctor knows what they are doing...



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 androlyn


    Dude, you are literally replying and quoting the chain of events so how are you missing where I am saying:

    "My friend asked questions her Dr couldn't answer, so she informed him she would speak with her gastroenterologist about it".

    " Given her experience she had many questions for her doctor about the 6in1 vaccine for her child. When her doctor couldn't answer them she spoke to gastroenterologist".

    No offence dude but read what I am saying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 androlyn




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Unlikely they would leave themselves open... its pretty well EU that there are loads of things we cannot do without Covid cert and i expect attending Doctors surgery one of them...



Advertisement