Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

"Green" policies are destroying this country

Options
12292302322342351062

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Do you agree we need gas/other fossil fuels while we transition to 100% renewables, however long that may be?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Yes, except that 'the however long that takes' part needs to be rapidly accelerated

    The WG3 report outlines the pathway to transition from fossil fuels.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not being a smart ass, but the equation would mean that would be a given i.e. if we are not at 100% renewables, then there is a % that is fossil fuels in the Irish grid



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I have a sneaky suspicion some posters on here think we don’t need fossil fuels to transition, and instead use other renewables to plug the gap in wind and solar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Well I agree with that.

    The next part of the question is are you happy to depend on the supply of gas coming into Ireland via the Moffat pipelines post 2025, considering the potential for a shortage of gas for the UK?



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Maybe I've missed some posts, but I'm not aware of anyone on this thread who thinks we can get to 100% renewables without transition nat gas.

    Granted once the transition is complete it will be from a variety of sources (wind, solar, hydro, interconnectors, various storage etc etc etc). There will, of course, be scope for other sources other than wind & solar for Ireland. What those might be, who knows, but some have mentioned tidal & wave as options which I would love to see come to fruition though I think they will only ever represent a small % of the generation sources.

    I would absolutely be in favour of us expanding to more sources than just wind and solar and for Ireland. In time that will likely be green hydrogen but to be honest I have yet to see how it can be used at grid scale without emissions i.e fuel cells as opposed to burning. If all we do with green hydrogen is burn it then it'll be a farce as we'll just be swapping co2 for nox



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Tbf the guy is a career politician not a scientist. I see he is making accusations of others not telling the truth.

    Hmmm it's not like the UN haven't previously been found to be overegging the spoon about climate related issues. I believe it was a US scientist who discovered that findings contained in the UN's report "Livestock’s Long Shadow,” published by the UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) were incorrect.

    UN admits flaw in report onmeat and climate change

    The UN has admitted a report linking livestock to global warming exaggerated the impact of eating meat on climate change

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/climatechange/7509978/UN-admits-flaw-in-report-on-meat-and-climate-change.htm

    Or the UN's recent efforts to play Patsy with Russia over the Invasion of Ukraine and then denying it despite evidence to the contrary


    Or even when the UN's WHO played along with the Chinese when they insisted Covid wasn't airborne despite evidence existing to the contrary

    I'll pass thanks.

    Edit. And no that’s not climate change denial before you try that one again



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Yes. And we should mitigate that risk through rapidly developing our renewable infrastructure and by being much more pro-active in developing the interconnectors with the EU grid, and if we need a terminal that can import LNG, I would support building one that is primarily designed to support Ammonia import and export because these will be crucial infrastructure that we need long term. I would support legislation that limited this infrastructure from being used primarily as a LNG terminal, and imposes strict rules of origin



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    https://report.ipcc.ch/ar6wg3/pdf/IPCC_AR6_WGIII_SummaryForPolicymakers.pdf

    This graph is from the IPCC report released on Monday. It shows the capacity to use renewables to reduce our emissions by 2030. Blue represents cost savings over the current energy source (note, this was drafted 2 years ago so there would be a lot more Blue now that energy prices have skyrocketed)

    The report is also probably out of date in terms of how much capacity can be added by 2030 as the technology really is moving very fast so a few years makes a big difference.

    The message is, we have a suite of options to migrate away from fossil fuels. Some are cheap, others are expensive. We probably need some amount of all of them.

    Hydrogen is not represented here because it's not a source of energy, it's a storage medium. The round trip efficiency of Hydrogen is about 40%, so we should be aiming to build as much wind and solar as we possibly can, and using Hydrogen and Batteries as the way to transport energy efficiently around the world from where it is abundant, to where it is needed. (these can be the same places depending on the weather and seasons, so global trade and the ability to stockpile some amounts of hydrogen will likely be a big part of future grids

    We need to be as ambitious as we possibly can, and creative, and imaginative. Humanity has all of these qualities. The main thing we really need is for the governments of the world to get out of the way, to stop subsidising fossil fuels, to invest in the transition through financing and regulations and concerted committments to leave most of the Oil Gas and Coal in the ground



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its not climate denial, it's burying your head in the sand.

    The secretary general is a politician, but there are plenty of scientists who drafted the scientific analysis in these reports who agree with every word he said.

    All 3 of the AR6 reports have been absolutely clear that we are facing existential crises. You can believe that I am alarmist saying this, but it is in the reports, not just the press releases, but the full reports that cover the science in great detail.

    If we do not rapidly cut emissions, and then go even further and actually pull CO2 out of the air, we will exceed 3c of warming and by then we may have passed the threshold where we are committed to runaway climate change.

    Our current path is one of climate disaster, so we should not be looking at extending the use of fossil fuels, we should be doing everything possible to cut all of our sources of emissions



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It does require non existent nuclear. We can't build nuclear facilities fast enough and they cost way more than renewables. And storage is not 'non existent'

    Almost all of the oil in the world comes ashore from large tankers transporting oil to be refined. Oil is a storage medium of energy. So are batteries, and so are gasses like Hydrogen and Hydrogen derivatives like Ammonia

    Your entire argument is 'We don't have the infrastructure for renewables therefore we should build more gas infrastructure to see us through until we can get nuclear up and running. Instead of building the gas infrastructure, build the renewable and storage infrastructure instead. It's not rocket science

    BTW, there are more than 2 paths, we need Nuclear And renewables. We need both, it's not a choice between them



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    That overfed numty did nothing about Afghanistans, soundbites between courses at whatever overpriced eatery he's gorging himself at. Pay no heed to bought arseholes like that



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,204 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Can be done alright but the economy wont like it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo



    The secretary general is a politician, but there are plenty of scientists 

    You didn't quote IPCC scientists. You quoted a politician who is claiming that others are not telling the truth. And as detailed the UN have had their own issues there.

    And yes there is a the challenge of climate change, but no I do not subscribe to the imminent end of civilisation stuff that is pushed by some on the back of the good work already done. That kind of thing is not helpful imho.

    We do not yet have technology at scale to "pull C02 out of the air" afaik

    As has been discussed here with regard to the use of natural gas, it's not an argument for extending the use of fossil fuels per se, rather its the need for alternative lower carbon sources of energy for the period of transition to renewable energy generation. Look I get it that you don't necessarily agree with that and that's your opinion which is fair enough.

    All 3 of the AR6 reports have been absolutely clear that we are facing existential crises. You can believe that I am alarmist saying this, but it is in the reports, not just the press releases, but the full reports that cover the science in great detail.

    Edit. On the wording "existential crisis". Afaik no IPCC report I've ever read uses that terminology. Its a phrase apparently beloved of Extinction rebellion and others like gretta thunberg. Whilst I know what it's getting at- Its also an overused malapropism.

    The correct meaning of "existentialism" relates to feelings and questions to do with the meaning and purpose of life and an 'existential crisis' is something that is recognised as being a personal condition relating to same


    Post edited by Mecanudo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Back to including a post from another poster that has no relevance to my post which you are supposedly replying to.

    I have mentioned this to you a number of times now, so at this stage I can only come to the conclusion that you are attempting to insinuate and place the thought in other posters minds that I have a number of accounts here under different user names, but you are too much of a coward to come out and say it.

    Innuendos and insinuations are the stock-in trade of sneaky little cowards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Hard to listen to gueitteries the homophobic

    His track record is not great now is it? anyway had a watch


    Basicalky a load of hyperbole to scare the bejaysus out of people by a politician..

    Nothing there to tell us how they are going to stop India, china burning coal ?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Back to including a post from another poster that has no relevance to my post which you are supposedly replying to.

    Multi quoting is not unusual, many posters do it, myself included. Not sure why you seem to have an issue with it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Because they have come up a lot in this thread I thought I'd share this here

    Germany has come up with new measures that could lead to a cumulative installed PV capacity of 215GW by 2030.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    You can find his speech here and the science does not support his fictional claims of major cities under water, unprecedented heatwaves, terrifying storms and widespread water shortages, nor the extinction of a million species of plants and animals. I would like to draw your attention to the UN charter

    Article 1

    The Purposes of the United Nations are:


    1. To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;


    2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;


    3. To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and


    4. To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.


    The organisation he leads has one primary job, that of international peace and security. How is he doing? Yemen, a country under 30 million people dilapidated by war and disease. Syria, Ethiopia, and lately Ukraine. How is the security council doing? When you can't get countries to refrain from war how the hell do you expect them to agree to a single world government united by climate change? Countries are not buying into the story, there is no connection between climate, national security, and the United Nations charter.

    Russian Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia complained that Monday’s proposed resolution would turn “a scientific and economic issue into a politicized question,” divert the council’s attention from what he called “genuine” sources of conflict in various places and give the council a pretext to intervene in virtually any country on the planet.


    “This approach would be a ticking time bomb,” he said.


    India and China questioned the idea of tying conflict to climate, and they predicted trouble for the Glasgow commitments if the Security Council — a body that can impose sanctions and dispatch peacekeeping troops — started weighing in more.


    “What the Security Council needs to do is not a political show,” Chinese Ambassador Zhang Jun said.


    source

    If only said UN security council members were more focused on resolving "genuine" sources of conflict. When an organisations head is promoting a false climate crisis when real hot conflicts are underway and have been for several years, one must conclude the value of the UN to humanity is dwindling.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Multi quoting is usually a reply to posts that have something in common.

    I have pointed out to this particular poster that of late when he/she has replied to my post often another post has been included that has nothing to do with the point supposedly being replied too. I have mention this to this particular poster a few times recently, as well as to why I suspected they were doing it, but it has been ignored.

    If you don`t believe me, then check it for yourself. There have been a number of such posts in the last few days so not difficult to find.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Re Germany

    Because they have come up a lot in this thread I thought I'd share this here

    They have indeed. Mainly because they seem to have have led a lot of EU policy on renewable energy and transition. A position we seem to have mirrored right down to the rampant electricity prices.

    Looks like the invasion of Ukraine is changing some things though

    With the greens vice chancellor of Germany Habeck striking agreements for gas and oil with counterparts in Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.

    "His party has gone along with government plans for a temporary reduction in gas taxes; and negotiations are ongoing with allies, as well as German and international energy companies on how to boost supply of fossil fuels to keep the economy's lights on and residents' homes warm through next winter."

    Maybe our own greens should think of some of the same concerns here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If I was you, I would question my own beliefs instead of digging up excuses to hand wave away the findings of seminal reports that have an impeccable reputation for integrity, and involve tens of thousands of hours of expert analysis from the most qualified experts in their fields



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Multi quoting is usually a reply to posts that have something in common.

    Usually, but not required and not anything to be getting worked up over. Honestly you seem to be getting annoyed over something that is basic functionality of the site



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A nuclear plant will never be built here so its a moot point



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    I know I had look it up. The funny thing was I found your comment about it in the thread on how to multi quote etc 😄

    Tbf to the poster. I think I can see the point being made. Though maybe best of the OP to explain no?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Several countries have already stayed that they need to bring forward renewable targets in reaction to the Ukraine war and removing dependence on fossil fuels.

    Next up, Portugal

    Portugal will aim to increase the share of renewables in electricity production to 80% by 2026, four years earlier than previously planned, its new government announced ahead of the country’s latest solar auction.


    The target represents a significant acceleration in decarbonising the country’s power sector; between 2010 and 2022, the share of renewables in electricity production increased from 41% to 58%.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Interesting. Though what about our own Green Party though? Do you know if they've changed their policies on a safe, secure and reliable non renewable source of energy during the period of transition, in response to the invasion of Ukraine, the energy crisis in Europe and Brexit? Especially considering as per the the thread title, they now seem to be out of step with the EU policy on LNG gas supplies and in breach of EU rules as much of our gas is coming from underwater pipelines from the UK.

    Interesting you brought up Portugal - I recently read the following article where they've said they are poised to become the LNG gateway for Europe, claiming to have the closest European port to the United States. I think someone should give them a map 🤔




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Yes. But to provide energy, it first has to exist. You cannot build new nuclear power fast enough while also building it safe enough



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




Advertisement