Baptising children

Perigrinus - fair enough, I was not aware of the rule change, I was not taking that much notice of church rules. I was aware of the infallibility of church rules and the church's ability to change them when it suited. So many 'essential' details changed - the ability to go to Mass on Saturday for Sunday, the removal of obligation to many saints' days, the removal of limbo, the fact of girls being allowed onto the altar, the need for the PP to turn up at social meetings to make sure nothing untoward happened, and many more - that you would lose track of what was a rule and what was not.

I was raised catholic, brought to mass weekly, my parents still go. Up until late teens I had a strong faith, until I started questioning the world for myself. I'm now most certainly atheist and like you weirdly against religion. That said, I know a few priests, they are good men and I wish them no ill. I respect them.

My wife's background, she was baptised, went to mass on occasion only as she grew up, a rarity. She doesn't do religion now, but on occasion still says "prayers to god", usually when something is wrong to be honest. I got married at a wedding venue, not a church. I didn't want my children baptised. She did. For social reasons, not religious.

I was dead set against 'going along with it because its the done thing', I was of the view that if they want to attend mass when older, by all means let them. My family's view was "get the child baptised and let her opt out later if she wants", which is backwards in my opinion. Anyway, my wife went and organised it anyway, child was baptised. I still wish it wasn't so, but it is, I've moved on.

I got my own back, ticked non-religious for us all on the census form mwah haha 😂

The unprincipled go with the flow for an easy life, they don't care that they make life more difficult for people who have principles. Largely because of this, politicians are still far too spineless to stand up to the church with regard to state-funded health and education services which are still bizarrely controlled by the church.

As for the "I know many good men who are priests", if they are such good men how can they in conscience remain in that organisation? It's not going to change.

Sorry @magicbastarder I misspoke- it was indeed the Census as you corrected.

In relation to the school issue - I think the issue is a little clouded by schools who are multi-denomination in name but not in practice. When we were looking at secondary schools a few years ago we visited a multi-denomination school - all bells and whistles on website saying how they welcomed all religions and non.

We were then told about their weekly assembly when weekly academic/behaviour awards were given out - in a prayer service. When my son queried why was the academic awards been given during a religious context he was told he could sit quietly and meditate. Surrounded by crucifixes, bibles etc. When he went on to question how they consider them multi-denominational we were met with a comment about how ET kids were outspoken! We left and did complain that their website was misleading - but of course got no response. Because obviously they were unable to handle the fact that a pre teen called out their hypocrisy - in a more polite way than I wanted :-)

@Eircom_Sucks most schools have evolved to realise they cant discriminate against different religions - sometimes it comes from the Parents or the board. My understanding this is in line with a UN ruling on the lack of choice of education for non catholic families which doesnt mandate this but it looks likely to come down the line at some stage.

Em, I don't think that is how people come to that conclusion. For me it is just so obviously irrational. We know humans make up religions, most religious would agree that Scientology, Mormonism, John Frum Cult etc are all made up. These don't seem to have any trouble attracting followers, so therefore people have a tendency to follow made up religions. Of the main religions, with over a billion followers, one has Jesus as the son of god being the main point of the religion, the other one thinks he is just a prophet. So they can't both be right here. That means that a religion can grow to large numbers while being incorrect on the most important element. I just take it a step further, they are both nonsense.

Can you give us a concrete example of the church "using your membership"?

It was an eye-opener for some people. If "holy men" were in some cases doing horrific things, and the "even holier men" the bishops were covering it up and lying about it... what else might they be lying about?

But in reality the RCC in Ireland was in serious decline well before this (about 20-30 years later than comparable Western countries). Vocations entered a death spiral in the early to mid 1970s - first nuns, which is why they're almost extinct today, but soon enough priests too. I remember weekly "prayers for vocations" in the early 1980s. A good number of priests started leaving in the 80s too. Family size went right down during the 1970s and 80s even though contraception was either illegal or hard to get (Hayes Conyngham Robinson the "Protestant" chemists were a better bet for pills or rubbers than FF-family owned Brady's on Dublin's SCR, for instance). Censorship tapered off and by the end of the 1980s was regarded as a joke and easily circumvented. We'd have got where we are now without the abuse scandals, and I sincerely wish they'd never happened, but they only slightly accelerated the decline of the RCC in Ireland which was inevitably going to happen anyway.

We just need to sort the schools and hospitals out. Nobody should have religion inflicted on them in either, or have to declare what their religion is or is not in order to access education or health services. It's the RCC's last stand here.

Although of a non-religious family, my granddaughter made her first communion to be part of the class, but by confirmation she decided that she did not want to be confirmed. Her best friend was being confirmed and she went along as one of her invitees. The PP was inclined to make a fuss (about her attending while not being confirmed) but was sorted by the school principal and all was well. Her sister will have the same option, I suspect she will opt to be confirmed, to be like the rest of the class.

🙄 I don't think I've read such rubbish in my life. Since when did non-Christians have to take part in Christian ceremonies to be able to "deal with" it. Given that this is Ireland, in 95% of schools they'll be sitting through daily Christian religious instruction. Then there's the priest visits, class masses, art=religious pictures, music=hymns, etc. etc..

Well whenever they mention so many members, they can't be relying on baptisms. How do they know how many of the baptised have died, for example. They are either using Census numbers (discussed elsewhere) or those attending services (far fewer).