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Russian warship, go f**k yourself!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭mikewest


    They are 8 years fighting over this bit of ground, i don’t see any hard evidence that their ambition stretches beyond this.

    Did you miss the bit where they tried to take over the whole of Ukraine and got kicked back in the last few weeks? Is that evidence not hard enough for you!



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,593 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    There's two units of the Belarusian army fighting for Ukraine against their president's orders.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    MODS: Can we close this thread. It's not bringing out the best in any of us. 


    No need to close it. Don't want to close it.

    It's a great source of information and, given the propaganda war being fought, a great source of alternative (I thought 'contrary' would be mis-interpreted, but it would be the better word) opinion.


    However, there's several of you that need to stop making it personal...... and stop taking it personally!

    It detracts from the thread.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not to forget the 5th column sabotaging belarusian railways.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    This illustrates how the war could grow. Other states in the Russian sphere with their own freedom fighters taking an opportunity of perceived weakness.

    While I want to see Putin get a severe black eye, I worry that more states getting involved significantly increases the opportunities for 'unintended consequences' and run-away escalation.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Some might!

    Going back to 'that' era, it's readily apparent Trump was right in his opposition to Germany taking Russian gas and starting a second pipeline.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    Great mod comment. It's the process of discussion that matters and not the small, almost always irrelevant, "victories".



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He was, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day, he was correct on NATO funding. Then you'd think of him in Helsinki standing beside putrid.......... There is a line of thinking that he would have taken the US out of NATO in a second term. Something that would be disastrous for Europe. I'm pro NATO but anti a European army, by the time Germany and France had decided there was a war going on it'd be over. Central and Eastern Europeans have had the lead in thinking regarding this conflict but it's the British and the Americans that lend steel to the defense of this continent. Without either we're goosed.

    In some good news, it appears "friends" of the orange one are flipping quicker than hamburgers at McDonalds re the insurrection. New York state tax issues are gaining comment again, a President cannot pardon himself from state crimes....... Make of that what you will.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,002 ✭✭✭893bet


    Watching a bit of saving private ryan there and its depressing stuff to consider how close to reality it likely is for many people at the moment.


    I am afraid for my children growing up.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Suckler


    Trump wasn't "right"; he was simply putting on a nonsense show. He chastised Germany for taking gas etc. but did nothing but cosy up to Putin and Russia during his term. The US is easily one of the top importers of Russian raw products. This was increased by 20% (roughly) under Trump as well.

    He was incredibly soft on Russia, incredulous in what he did to enable todays actions in Ukraine; other actions are bordering treasonous behaviour by todays GOP rhetoric.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Knowing the cost of Irish Defense forces but not their value. Drop this neutered state nonsense and fund the defense forces properly. Join NATO while they're at it.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russia-threatens-ireland-after-diplomats-expelled-r70wdqqmz



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,593 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Well sure you've Finland was always keen on neutrality. Looks certain now to join NATO after what's happening in Ukraine. And the delay in the newness of this war that everyone doesn't know how to proceed. So it looks that Finland will join NATO to be sure.

    Kazakhstan was as a country in the very same position as Ukraine. In the last few weeks they said they'll always recognise an independent Ukraine and never recognise if Russia claims a part. Russia is calling Kazakhstan a non state country. And has eyes on its uranium mining industry. They're going to use the Russian population trick against them like Ukraine even though like Ukraine they're planters and in the minority.

    They know like Ukraine something is brewing.

    Serbia and Hungary will support Putin. Alienating their neighbours in opposition to Putin. Serbia is just cracked. Hungary rules as fair as Russia does it's own.

    Turkey will claim neutrality but keep selling Ukraine their drones. It's not in it's interest to have the one powerful dictator controlling the black sea. Anytime up to now they could stop Russian ships going through the Bosphorus. If Putin gets stronger they may not get the right.

    Russia really will look for land access to the Adriatic. That puts pressure on the the other balkan states again.

    Russia will keep funding more disturbances in the various parts of the EU. E.g Corsica to occupy the French government. Etc, etc.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ......slightly relevant to this thread, an interview with the nazi lady from 2017. One noteworthy pearl of wisdom being, putrid is popular because he seems to keep getting reelected. Why does Saddam Hussein come to mind...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/oct/16/iraq



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "the fight was not of good against evil but of good against neutral"

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/09/world/europe/putin-ukraine-russia.html?referringSource=articleShare



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    "Public fear-mongering about the catastrophic consequences of an energy embargo from lobby groups and affiliated think tanks does not hold up to academic standards. "

    Enjoyed that last line. Really shows the arrogance of academia with little real world knowledge.

    There isn't the supply of alternative oil, coal and gas for much supply to be diverted away from Russia without major shortages.

    Alternative supplies aren't just sitting there waiting to be bought, current commodity prices wouldn't be so high if that was the case.

    There's issues with transport, they assume adequate boats are there. The russian coal ban will cause demand for ships transporting coal to Europe to double if not treble as it means more days at sea to cover the distance from further away sources and presumably a portion of Russian coal was arriving by rail.

    Oil and gas would run into similar issues.

    To build the capacity for that would take 5+ years.

    Who is going to want to invest in building boats to guarantee an over supply of boats in the market?

    In the short to medium term you could see a drop in production of coal, oil and gas as logistics wouldn't be able to keep up.

    The combined effect would be at least double the shortage what was modelled in that article.

    Eu gas prices would soar, fertiliser would be very cheap at €1000/t (assuming Putin was generousenough to keep shipping it), all heavy industry would be shut. Having inputs hedged would be no saviour as force majeures would be declared.

    Foreign holders of euros would sell, so a major drop in the euros value would make the issue of rising input prices even more severe.

    We would probably end up in a worse scenario then Russia was in the early days post invasion with the ruble, except we wouldn't be able to pump out anything of value to stabilise the euro.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,593 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Boris Volodarsky a former Spetsnaz, Russian special forces captain gives his take on Roman Abramovich's and the Ukrainian teams poisoning at the peace talks.

    He also mentions the poisoning of the former Russian prime minister in Dublin.

    Gives a list of insiders who know the ins and outs of the Russian regime.

    Worth a read.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Lithuania had it all figured out years ago, haven't been able to locate what their current gas costs are but this article shows long-term its economically suicidal for Germany to be paying current gas prices to Vladimir, the fact that one of the smallest counties in Europe has the above infrastructure and Germany as of today hasn't got a single lng terminal says it all really

    https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1534562/lithuanian-lng-terminal-turns-seven-weapon-against-russia-s-aggressive-energy-policy



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,593 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Just happened to turn on Sky news there.

    Volunteers collecting the dead bodies of the Russian War crimes off the streets.

    The van being used was a silver Ford transit 03 dublin reg.

    I know there was a call for vehicles and a group from Dublin left for there. Anyway the familiar on the (whatever words could describe it out there).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Difference is that it's relatively straightforward for them to do it due to size. Germany use 35,000 times the gas that Lithuania uses a year.

    For Germany it requires a massive amount of investment and infrastructure, a long-term commitment to it and a need to accept that they're locked into a higher price. As because of their size it's not simple to get those massive quantities needed as it is from Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,593 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    There was an Irish academic studied war science or some made up PhD in Cambridge, across the water anyway.

    She was on before the war on radio 1 Sunday morning. Had the whole script of Russia defending themselves, Nato, etc, etc, everyone but Russia was to blame. Bought and paid for by Russia to go on radio.

    That's my take on who he's referring to avoid. There was another Irish man on television soon after very same spiel and he had a degree from England in war whatever. His opponent was a military man on the show and he showed him talking nonsense. Came out with dingers that only when Russia was weak could Ukraine look for independence. By the same talk then that means Ukraine always wanted independence but Russia wouldn't allow it do so.

    Russia is big and bad enough to manage what they have. Lord knows they have enough money. Why they want to kill people and do old fashioned land grabs and extend territory to keep themselves occupied. Makes no sense. Well it does to the Kremlin.

    "One death is a tragedy, one million is a statistic. " attributed to Stalin.

    On the second bit with the BBC bit. Abramovich still doesn't want to fall out with the Kremlin even if they give him an intentional scare.

    USA I don't know what's going on. Whether there's dirt on Biden or the vice presidents influence to let white people kill white people I dunno.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    The eu made its bed. This hasn't been in the making just because of Germany.

    It's because of the policies by national governments and Brussels.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,591 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    The EU doesn't buy gas. That's up to the national parliaments



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It should, and a Gas Union has been proposed by Radek Sikorski. Collective bargaining if you will.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,591 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    There's talk of the block buying gas on bulk in order to get a better rate than individual countries now the price is up. But as of now, it doesn't buy gas but does set rules around it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    Great way to get rid of old out dated equipment and get nice ultra modern equipment from the US and UK



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    It decided on the policy that brought us to this point



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