Best value EV (or hybrid) 7 seat towcar

topofthewind · 06-04-2022 1:58pm #1

Hi all,

Was looking to upgrade my car to an ev/hybrid if feasible (currently have a 7 seat Skoda Kodiaq).

I need to have 7 seats and the ability to tow a caravan. I do about 28k km a year.

So far am struggling to find an option that meets my requirements in the ev or hybrid range.

Is my only realistic (and affordable) option to stick with an ICE vehicle?

I have had a look at most of the major brand offerings but suspect I may have missed something.

Any costed suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

pron · 06-04-2022 2:06pm

In the short-term : Yes, sticking with ICE / PHEV is about your only real option (and I'm not sure PHEV counts in 7-seat terms)

Options for 7-seaters are, effectively:

Tesla Model X 7-seater €120k if you can get one
Mercedes EQV about €100k
Citroen Spacetourer (van conversion, seems only 50kW available here) .. also Peugeot / Opel versions of same - about €50k
Volkswagen ID.Buzz (there's a promised 7-seat LWB version, but nothing official yet)
Older Tesla Model S with jump-seats for toddlers :)

unkel · 06-04-2022 2:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889352#Comment_118889352

There is a 7 seat option for the Tesla Model S alright, but the car is not rated for towing.

topofthewind · 06-04-2022 2:28pm

Thanks for that info. Very helpful.

I’ll have a look at those van conversion options. At €50k the price gap isn’t as big as I thought (the ICE 7 seaters have gone way up over the past year). I must look up the towing range of a 50kW vehicle, I suspect it mightn’t be great though.

pron · 06-04-2022 2:36pm

https://ev-database.org/car/1341/Citroen-e-SpaceTourer-M-50-kWh

Might have some useful info

kanuseeme · 06-04-2022 3:01pm

https://www.kia.com/ie/new-cars/sorento-phev/discover/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs4aqgNj_9gIVRbTtCh0siwhJEAAYASAAEgLQG_D_BwE

55 km range, 1.6l petrol, 260 bhp. tow 1500 kg.

Better looking than the transit van,

topofthewind · 06-04-2022 3:02pm

Thanks for that.

The Citroen has a towing limit of 1000kg. Not bad, but there wouldn’t be many caravans below that weight. You’d want at least 1,500kg for most outfits I’d say. My one is 1600kg and wouldn’t be one of the biggest.

topofthewind · 06-04-2022 3:06pm

Thanks for the reply.

The Kia Sorrento went from circa €40,000 to about €60,000 a few years back. Was a great shame as that and the Santa Fe were in a great position to compete with the VAG group offerings.

kanuseeme · 06-04-2022 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889662#Comment_118889662

The diesel versions are 1 to 2 k more expensive, it would really be down to your trips, better economy if you do lots of 50 km trips, I found from my outlander it was no worse than a diesel on long trips, only that petrol was 10 cent more expensive, about 5 euro extra on a 320 km trip to Dublin.

Its 100 kg short, would that make much of a difference?

fits · 06-04-2022 3:21pm

Sorento PHEV best option I’d say. The ioniq5 can tow 1600kg which might do for a caravan but it’s not a seven seater.

topofthewind · 06-04-2022 3:56pm

Sorento the best value hybrid option it seems. Coming in somewhere around €57,000. No ev on the table for now.

The Kodiaq currently not available in petrol (despite what the website says) so best price is the diesel dsg at around €47,000 (after paint plus delivery).

Big price difference between the two. Looks like an ICE the best value for now. Will be interesting to see how well diesels hold their value going forward vs hybrids.

Lantus · 06-04-2022 4:21pm

Just so you are aware adding even a small caravan to an ev will cripple the range. A good sized ev like an enyaq 80kwh will do 150km with a caravan at best....see the video below.

https://youtu.be/mmQJUW-VyRY

There is no viable ev to tow a caravan practically yet and with 7 seats and luggage plus bike etc. Stick with what you have.

topofthewind · 06-04-2022 4:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889722#Comment_118889722

The 100kg would make a difference alright as the recommended way of loading for a trip is to put a lot of your cargo kgs between the axles of the towing vehicle for stability. In practice that means that if towing 1600kg at the towbar, there would be a decent load in the car too.

crisco10 · 06-04-2022 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890047#Comment_118890047

Id also seriously worry about the logistics of parking at public charging with a caravan attached! (And assume it would be a total ballache to be constantly disconnecting reconnecting)

unkel · 06-04-2022 8:09pm

Aye. Regular towing would be one of the very few use cases where a PHEV is a better option than a BEV.

Killer K · 06-04-2022 8:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891133#Comment_118891133

In Norway maybe..

kanuseeme · 07-04-2022 10:00am

Santa Fe phev also a 7 seater, but towing seems to be 900 kg, I could be wrong on that, its a good 5 k cheaper than the diesel version also.

topofthewind · 07-04-2022 12:57pm

Had a look there again at the Hyundai site. Santa Fe phev at around €58,000. a nice enough car but the price is way up there now.

Couldn’t find any info on towing limits. 900kg wouldn’t be enough for most applications.

I’d say the best value (affordable) option for a towing 7 seater PHEV is the Sorento but with a towing limit of 1500kg, it’s not a great option.

kanuseeme · 07-04-2022 1:27pm

New outlander out later this year, 80 km range 20 kWh battery, 7 seats, don't know about towing, only problem is that Mitsubishi has left, no its staying, no they are in discussion with Renault, so who knows.

pron · 07-04-2022 8:15pm

BEV or PHEV towing is probably down to Gross Train weight of 3500kg which is your max on an EB licence iirc ?

The extra 500kg of batteries has to be accounted for somewhere :)

joe1303l · 07-04-2022 8:45pm

Mercedes EQB €70K

topofthewind · 07-04-2022 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118895864#Comment_118895864

That’s a very important point. The heavier weights of ev and phev vehicles means that a lot of the available 3,500kg is accounted for before any trailer/ caravan is added.

For e.g., the Kodiaq comes in at 1710kg. The max (as per B license) that can be towed is 1790kg (when added to the weight of the car to stay below 3,500kg).

A caravan at 1600kg plus luggage and bikes leaves very little to play with.

Adding even 300kg due to batteries means an EB licence would be needed.

pron · 08-04-2022 12:31pm

Actually - just double-checked at https://www.ndls.ie/about/licence-categories-and-codes.html#licence-categories

B : Vehicles (other than motorcycles, mopeds, work vehicles or land tractors) having a MAM1 not exceeding 3,500 kg. having passenger accommodation for not more than 8 persons and where the MAM1 of the trailer is not greater than 750 kg. or where the combined MAM1 of the towing vehicle and the trailer does not exceed 3,500 kg.

BE: Combination of drawing vehicles in category B and trailer where the MAM¹ of the trailer is not greater than 3,500 kg.

So you'd need a BE for a caravan of 1600kg in any case - but max train weight is part of the cert of conformity of the vehicle and has to be complied with either way. That said, most cars have these days have zero rated capacity for luggage if you actually fill every seat with a normal sized adult!

pron · 08-04-2022 12:37pm

OP - you might want to look at the Merc EQB (not cheap .. Starts in the €65k range ..)

7 seater

Towing capacity (allegedly) of 1800kg according to https://www.whatcar.com/news/2022-mercedes-eqb-review-price-specs-and-release-date/n23828

kanuseeme · 08-04-2022 12:45pm

As crisco said "charging logistics"

kanuseeme · 08-04-2022 12:48pm

LMFAO,

Charge and camp all day long.

topofthewind · 08-04-2022 12:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898341#Comment_118898341

Thanks for the info and for providing the link.

If you read the BE part, you will see that it allows the trailer to be up to 3,500kg. So the vehicle could be up to 3,500kg also (there is also provision for a vehicle to weigh over 4,000kg) . This would allow for a much heavier set up that suits builders, farmers with livestock etc.

My understanding of the B licence is that it allows braked towing to a limit of 3500kg total train weight. No need for a BE licence in my case.

As a caravan tower there are 4 weights that must be adhered to.

The permitted combined train weight of towing vehicle and caravan (3,500kg with a B licence).
The towing capacity of the lead vehicle (as stated by manufacturer).
The towbar down weight limit(also set by the car manufacturer).
And the max. permissible cargo weight for the caravan (stated by the caravan/trailer manufacturer). This is the stuff you put into the caravan or trailer.

topofthewind · 08-04-2022 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898371#Comment_118898371

Looks a lovely car. A bit too expensive for my budget but would certainly be up to the job. Thanks.

fits · 08-04-2022 7:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898416#Comment_118898416

No it’s combined weight of 3500 kg. So if car is 2000 kg and trailer 1500kg it’s fine. Any more and you need BE ( which I have).

topofthewind · 08-04-2022 7:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118900314#Comment_118900314

I think you are agreeing with me 😁

pron · 09-04-2022 12:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118900314#Comment_118900314

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118900342#Comment_118900342

The only other limit with a B (not BE) is the trailer can have a max weight of 750kg - up to a gross train weight of 3500kg max (so 2000kg + 750kg trailer max, or 3000kg car + 500kg trailer max)

topofthewind · 09-04-2022 1:34pm

Yes, that’s true if the trailer or caravan does not have its own braking system fitted. In that case, only 750kg can be towed.

However, if the trailer/caravan has it’s own braking system (as all larger ones normally would), then the limit is set at a combined weight of 3,500kg for lead vehicle and braked trailer.

So, on a B licence, a Kodiaq weighing 1710kg can pull a caravan weighing up to 1790kg provided that the caravan has it’s own braking system. The second figure would need to be reduced by the weight of any cargo etc. as the total cannot exceed 3,500kg.

Obviously, the other 3 weight limits (mentioned by me in an earlier post) must also be adhered to.

fits · 09-04-2022 3:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118902712#Comment_118902712

There’s always been confusion about that! I’m still not sure what the law actually means tbh. Eliminate any doubts by just doing the BE.

creedp · 09-04-2022 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118903403#Comment_118903403

You, me and many others! I know a few farmers around me driving crew cabs and triple axle cattle trailers and driving on a B licence. A few in the building line pulling mini-diggers and the like also on B licences. I wondering how many people actually get pulled and weighed?

fits · 09-04-2022 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118904580#Comment_118904580

There’s been a good few checkpoints around here. Especially around marts.

brokenangel · 10-04-2022 11:35am

To the OP, I have similar requirements. I had an Outlander PHEV for a while pulling a 1600kg caravan. I only pulled a few times a year so the day to day use of the PHEV and the saving out-weighted the additional fuel I used when I was pulling the caravan. It was hard on petrol once you stuck it on

I wanted a 7 seater and I could find nothing so I ended up with an X5. She will pull the caravan like a dream but because of the weight I would need the additional license, which I have. In the end we got lucky and have a stationary site. The owner can also hold and store the caravan in winter so I expect to do this.

Hence why I will look at an electric but the 7 seater options are very limited, I started a thread here. In reality if I want something it will be a Hyndai Santa Fei by the looks of it. The Merc EQB is nice but 70k and a bit small.

If I was you, well you have the number 1 rated car for pulling a caravan for a number of years. The Kodiaq as you will know is a favourite for caravan owners. I would stick with what you have. To be honest what is she running at ltr/100km? the X5 I have is over 10ltr/100km so be thankful you are not running that

brokenangel · 10-04-2022 11:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118898371#Comment_118898371

I think this is wrong, when I checked here they said you can't put a tow bar on it. This is based on the diesel version Merc and I feel some people copied and pasted some stats.

Edit, found the below. When I asked MSL they said it couldn't pull so a risk paying 70k+ for a car and then getting told it won't pull

As it is electric, the weight pof the battery alone would drive you over the pulling limit so you would need to get the license

Towing

Mercedes has yet to confirm towing capacity for the EQB, although the smaller EQA can tow a braked trailer weighing up to 1,800kg in 300 4MATIC guise. We’d expect the larger EQA to be capable of hauling at least a similar amount.

topofthewind · 10-04-2022 10:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118906178#Comment_118906178

Thanks for that. I think I will stick with the Kodiaq alright. I have the petrol one at the moment which is nice and refined for normal driving. Averaging 6.8l per 100km. With the caravan on, I’m getting 10l per 100km- same as yourself.

I may stick with an ICE but switch over to diesel as the 6.8/100km is too high. Reckon I’d get 5.3/100km with the 2.0l diesel dsg Kodiaq. Diesel becoming unpopular at the moment but still relevant where pulling power is needed and will be for a while yet by the looks of things.

brokenangel · 11-04-2022 7:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908947#Comment_118908947

Unless something is wrong with the car I wouldn't be swapping to reduce by 1ltr per 100km. Just my advice

crisco10 · 11-04-2022 7:48am

The numbers wouldn't be great alright if that's your sole motivation, 1l per 100km is 10l per 1000km. Even at e2 a litre that's still only a e20 saving per 1000km. You'd want to be doing a lot of miles to catch up any cost to change (even the effort of it, what value does your time have?!)

topofthewind · 11-04-2022 8:17am

Good points. Diesel also around 10c/l more expensive than petrol for now. Possible diesel shortage being reported from a few sources as well.

Uncertain times.

Main reason for changing is that my current car is getting older now and want to keep driving a new or near new car. It’s due it’s first NCT and the warranty is up too. The value of it is very high at the moment. I don’t know if this will last. Makes some sense financially to make a move. With new prices rising fast, I need a high trade in value to buy new.

Many used cars appreciated in value last year. Can the current trend for used cars to rise in price continue?

Will the price of new cars go down?

I’m thinking that no is the answer to the above but I don’t know.

kanuseeme · 11-04-2022 12:39pm

I am sorry.

Dacia Jogger, 26 000 euro. petrol.

topofthewind · 11-04-2022 1:59pm

Yes, looks to be great value alright. 1l petrol 3 cylinder engine with 110 bhp.

Lots of space in the rear too.

You may have missed the towing limit though, which is set at 1,200kg. Not in caravan territory for most unfortunately.

Best value EV (or hybrid) 7 seat towcar

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Towing