Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

TRC10 · 10-04-2022 5:52pm

So Leicester in the quarter finals.

A good team but with Porter, Kelleher and Ryan back we should have too much for them.

Interested Observer · 10-04-2022 6:00pm

So Leinster likely playing Leicester next? Away?

Clegg · 10-04-2022 6:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118907558#Comment_118907558

Yeah, whomever goes through in our second leg against Connacht will play away to Leicester.

Clegg · 10-04-2022 6:20pm

Posted this in the Champions Cup thread but probably just as relevant here. Leicester reminds me of the Saracens and La Rochelle sides who beat Leinster in recent European knock out games. They've a very strong set piece and compete incredibly hard at the ruck. In George Ford they've a player who can put the ball in areas forcing the defence to retreat constantly.

But having watched them against Connacht and now Clermont, I think their defence isn't as suffocating as the sides we've struggled against in recent years. Their scramble defence is excellent, but they allow more line breaks in their first up defence. If Leinster can keep continuity and stop them from flooding the ruck we can win. Our attacking play is the best in Europe. Every player is a valid passing option, and there's no side around who can draw defenders in and create mismatches, as well as Leinster.

A lack of power has been one of the issues we've had in recent years. That was addressed by adding Porter to the starting side. Maybe we need one more grizzled lock ala Thorn/Fardy. I think we can win at Welford Road. But we'd need to cut out the inconsistencies which have dogged our game this season and to sort out our tendency to leak penalties at the ruck but not having enough players clearing out.

Leicester are probably favourites for this game, if we qualify, as I've doubts about the ruck.

Former Former Former · 10-04-2022 7:05pm

I'll be very surprised if Leicester go into the game as favourites.

sydthebeat · 10-04-2022 7:29pm

One thing about this resurgent Leicester team is that they havent played a team like Leinster before. The closest they would have met in regards to ability to change the point of attack is Quinns, but Quinn's forwards arent half as abrasive as Leinsters. Apart from that, you need to look at what Bristol did to them in the semi final of the prem last year, where their back patterns completely ripped tigers apart (some may remember that game as the controversy over Afoa coming back on). Remember Connacht came within 6 point of them at welford road, and 1 point at the sportsgrounds.

id imagine IF leinster play them away Leinster would go in at around 5 point favourtites.

10-04-2022 7:39pm

Are either of Porter or Kelleher due back soon?

Clegg · 10-04-2022 8:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118907991#Comment_118907991

The most recent injury update from Leinster, dated the 4th of April, said Porter, Kelleher and Larmour were all back training. They didn't make the first leg, but they're hopefully they'll be available this Friday.

10-04-2022 8:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908081#Comment_118908081

Did you mean Porter, Kelleher and Larmour because a very Furlong shaped tighthead played on Friday!

stephen_n · 10-04-2022 8:18pm

Didn’t see the game today but based on their performance against Connacht. Leicester are pretty bang average and their defence struggles against and unstructured attack. The only reason they got a foothold in the game in the sportsground. Was because Connacht decided to kick the ball aimlessly down the middle of the pitch to them. Something I would really hope we don’t do, if we do end up playing them.

Clegg · 10-04-2022 8:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908093#Comment_118908093

You're right. I've edited the original post.

According to the same report it seems that Baird and Ryan will miss the return leg. Neither are back training yet.

10-04-2022 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908188#Comment_118908188

Pure speculation but don't expect to see Ryan again this season. Would be a bonus to see Baird back and ideal for him to get some game time before the squad is selected for the Summer.

leakyboots · 10-04-2022 9:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118900947#Comment_118900947

It's not even a contest. RK was a woeful tackler and counter-attacker who got overly-lauded for doing the basics like good positional play and kicking. Never had the attacking smarts like Dempsey who always seemed to be ready at the end of multi-phase attacking play to run in a try.

Keenan is a far superior player already.

Edit: Kearney did start his career like a rocket it must be said, scored tries for fun and the kicking rules suited him down to the ground when they came in, I just think he was decidedly average for most of the latter half of it.

11-04-2022 9:14am

People never have really been able to get over their sour grapes when it came to Kearney but his record at Leinster, Ireland and the Lions along with his massive trophy cabinet speaks for itself.

No player has ever been declared finished so many times only to keep getting picked and proving his detractors so hilariously wrong.

Anyone doubting his ability should rewatch the 2018 slam and get a clue.

sydthebeat · 11-04-2022 9:23am

funny that kearneys try scoring record for leinster is better than keenans, even considering keenans small stats pool.

i guess for some consistency and reliability are traits that arent to be celebrated.

Its amazing how a "woeful tackler" can be selected to play every minute of irelands last 2 grand slam wins.

Former Former Former · 11-04-2022 9:36am

It is 100% sour grapes. There was always some middling-to-average FB who was being utterly shafted by Kearney's continued inclusion, and people hated him because he kept proving that he still was the best we had by some distance.

Even at the 2019 RWC debacle, he was one of the few to actually play well.

BoardsMember · 11-04-2022 9:50am

I'm not sure it is sour grapes, I don't understand how that would apply. Certainly never hated Kearney. He was class. I definitely get more flutters of excitement though when Keenan gets the ball. I'm no student of the game, but I definitely struggle to remember Kearney as a great distributor of the ball, or an evasive runner - certainly in his latter years. Keenan looks like that type of player to me, at the moment anyhow. Maybe we will see Keenan become a more conservative player in time, like Kearney seemed to become.

Dubinusa · 11-04-2022 10:17am

I thought RK was solid but unspectacular. Reliable and safe. But Keenan appears to have a better overall range of skills.

Interested Observer · 11-04-2022 10:29am

It's not really a very interesting discussion. They never competed for the same jersey. Keenan is playing great rugby, Kearney's career speaks for itself.

Former Former Former · 11-04-2022 10:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118909723#Comment_118909723

Sorry, not implying it's sour grapes comparing him with Keenan, just that the dislike of RK while he was playing was difficult to stomach at times

Keenan is definitely on course but needs a few more seasons at the top for a proper comparison.

11-04-2022 11:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118910006#Comment_118910006

Exactly. And if Keenan was playing for Joe Schmidt Leinster and then Joe Schmidt Ireland he'd look a different prospect entirely. People think Kearney changed as a player but in reality the entire way Leinster and then Ireland played changed and Kearney adapted. And he adapted better than anyone else in the country was able to.

Dubinusa · 11-04-2022 11:24am

Anyone think Leinster are good enough to win the Euro? I'm not sure they can. They are not really geling atm. There's a lot of sides around that could beat us up physically. Especially with Ryan and Porter out. I hope they can, but they are not as good as we think they are, imo.

Clegg · 11-04-2022 11:26am

Venjur is right about Kearney. He changed his game to suit the demands of the coach. He became a better player for it, even if he did lose a bit of individual brilliance. As a young player he was one of the most exciting attackers I've ever seen. Had top end pace, acceleration and a great sidestep. There were times in his career that he struggled for form, but he generally dug himself if of those holes.

There's always been a bit of sourgrapes around Kearney that he was a better player than the flavour of the day ala Zebo or Payne.

Clip of Kearney from around 06 ish.

https://youtu.be/zUSANCkoX5s

TRC10 · 11-04-2022 1:55pm

From an Ireland POV, Kearney was very lucky that Zebo left for France and Payne was forced to retire both in late 2017 IMO.

I also think had Will Addison not gotten injured, he was in trouble in 2019.

Exclamation Marc · 11-04-2022 2:11pm

Leinster Rugby head coach Leo Cullen has issued an injury update ahead of Friday’s Heineken Champions Cup Round of 16 second leg clash with Connacht at Aviva Stadium (KO 5.30pm – LIVE on BT Sport and RTÉ Radio One).

It’s all positive news this week for Cullen as there are no fresh injuries to report following the first leg win at The Sportsground on Saturday.

In addition, all of Andrew Porter, Rónan Kelleher, Jordan Larmour and Michael Milne have all recovered from their respective injuries and will train as normal this week.

There are no further updates on:

Dave Kearney (hamstring), Will Connors (knee), James Ryan (concussion) and Ryan Baird (back)

11-04-2022 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118911050#Comment_118911050

In the 2017 Six Nations Kearney started every game bar the last one (injury) at fullback and Zebo played every game on the wing so I would completely reject any notion of luck in that situation. In fact a returned to fitness Payne went to fullback for the last game and Zebo stayed on the wing. There is exactly zero evidence that when both fit - Zebo would ever have been picked ahead of Kearney at full back.

Payne is a different argument, fitness in midfield would play a part in that decision as he seemed preferred in the centre for Ireland but he had a lot to offer from fullback. Again however, at no point during his career with Ireland would you have said that he seemed to be pushing ahead of a fit Kearney but I would say that injury and availability in more than one played a part in that.

But to suggest that there is evidence that Kearney was 'lucky' that Payne retired is totally unfounded given selections made during their overlapping tenure.

For the record I think Keenan could well be the better player and he was my fullback of the six nations this year. Can't remember feeling that way about Kearney at any point, but that doesn't mean Kearney didn't have a huge career for Ireland and wasn't quite dominant in his position.

errlloyd · 11-04-2022 2:17pm

Just love Keenan's offload and passing game.

He's like a nice Liam Williams.

11-04-2022 2:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118911149#Comment_118911149

I think recent weeks have highlighted the importance of Porter. I've said it before but I think he is one of the strongest players in world rugby with a big engine despite his size and power and his contribution to the scrum and looseplay as a result is irreplaceable. As impressive as Sheehan is I still think Kelleher has that bit more power in the set piece so I'd be starting him for the time being.

That's a formidable front row to go against Connacht this weekend and one we'll need against Leicester should we progress.

Would like to have seen Baird back but that's a positive update all told.

pickarooney · 11-04-2022 2:28pm

Would anyone else just love to see a fight between Kelleher and Sheehan?

arsebiscuits1 · 11-04-2022 4:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118911219#Comment_118911219

I think Kelleher has a bit more power full stop.

And that's not a slight on Sheehan who is a gifted player in his own right and has a power game not matched by a lot of people.

However Kelleher has that ability to stop a strong ball carrier dead and his technique is so sound. Against Exeter in Sandy park last season he was just melting fellas and stopped a lot of Exeters front foot ball.

On the other side of the ball his ability to find those extra meters in traffic is truly impressive to see. He accelerates into contact that bit fast with that bit more power and his footwork is so accurate.

Tell you something. Those boys are gonna have a battle for the ages over the next few years. Privileged to get to watch it

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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