Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

p_haugh · 03-12-2021 2:06pm

Donnybrook has begun to withdraw their AXs, so expect to see PAs on the 46a over the coming days!

https://twitter.com/myDublinbus/status/1466725922166427650?t=86WyaT6hWvsX7zutYmzHyw&s=19

https://twitter.com/myDublinbus/status/1466727938632650756?t=JRP78yK5Lg9pE_yXZX8i2g&s=19

d51984 · 03-12-2021 11:19pm

I hated the AV,s when they were introduced as it ment bye bye to the KD KC class, now the PA are killing off the AX class so I hate the PA. In 15 years I wonder what will kill off the PA? (If they last that long). We have another AX in Clontarf tonight, we use one for cleaning, I dont know what the 2nd one is for.

dublinman1990 · 04-12-2021 10:45pm

Does anyone know what other routes are the Hybrids being used in Donnybrook? Will the the 145/155 get them?

Peregrine · 15-12-2021 2:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117968168#Comment_117968168

The 45 single deck electric buses from the agreement for 200 were supposed to to arrive around now. They were supposed to be used in an all electric Athlone town bus service early next year and also for the O orbital in Dublin in June 2022. Athlone town buses won't be changed to electric until the end of 2022 now and the O orbital is now planned to start in June 2023. As far as I know, the Athlone depot still has no charging facilities.

Still nothing on the 800 double deck electric buses. It was due to be awarded in the autumn. Hopefully they'll be ordered before the end of the year. Initial order of 100 for Dublin and 20 for either Cork or Limerick.

The tender process for shorter length electric single deck buses will start soon.

The two Yutong electric buses leased for LocalLink Kerry will start service in Dingle early next year.

dublinman1990 · 15-12-2021 3:15am

A post on Flickr has said that Bus Eireann's VWD 1-10 are to be put up for auction in Q1 2022. I'm guessing that this move must have something to do with the PAD's going into service in Galway/Limerick. It's a real shame to read that some VWD's in Bus Eireann are going out of the company so quickly. They only began service with them after being manufactured by Wrightbus in 2015.

devnull · 15-12-2021 8:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323489#Comment_118323489

The first of them date back to 2008 not 2015.

dublinman1990 · 26-12-2021 5:33pm

Volvo Buses have released a new range of Battery Electric buses for the UK & Ireland market back in late November. The buses are made in partnership with MCV which provide the EvoCiti & Evora range. The double deck version of this bus is being used as a demonstrator on TFL Metroline very soon.

https://www.route-one.net/news/volvo-launches-bzl-electric-uk-demonstration-to-start-soon/

Here's a picture of their new single decker

The single decker variant is offered in both 10.5m & 12 m versions. They can be also offered in either 9m or 13 m variants as well.

Are these new buses officially suitable to fit the NTA'S requirements for battery electric buses?

I would assume that if they were sticking with ADL or Wrights for the battery electric buses as soon they sign the framework agreement with one of those manufacturers. Volvo would be out of the mix for this new contract.

Peregrine · 17-01-2022 5:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118323431#Comment_118323431

The announcement about the agreement for 800 double deck electric buses with Wrightbus is due soon.

Peregrine · 17-01-2022 5:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147585#Comment_118147585

These buses ☝️

TranslatorPS · 17-01-2022 6:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118490228#Comment_118490228

The September 2021 NTA board meeting minutes mention approval for that, with an initial order of 120 vehicles.

bk · 17-01-2022 7:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118490628#Comment_118490628

Yep, looks to be confirmed to by Wrights:

"the Board approved the award of a framework contract for the purchase of double deck electric buses to Bamford Bus Company Limited (t/a Wrightbus) and the placement of an initial order for one hundred and twenty (120) vehicles under that framework."

Quiet a surprise that they have beaten out ADL. Will be interesting to see how they are. On paper the specs look impressive.

Will be interesting to see if they went with the 340kWh or 454kWh battery option or a mix of both. Also if they go for the 150kW or 300kW charging option.

Peregrine · 17-01-2022 7:56pm

Yes, Wrightbus is ramping up for a big year.

https://www.colerainechronicle.co.uk/news/2022/01/17/gallery/wrightbus-still-recruiting-to-double-production-in-2022-21138/

https://www.irishnews.com/business/2021/12/10/news/wrightbus-to-double-production-in-2022-in-major-shift-to-zero-emission-vehicles-2531913/

PAD85 · 17-01-2022 8:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118490833#Comment_118490833

Looks like they've gone with Wrights then. I was assuming they would go with Wrights

dublinman1990 · 18-01-2022 12:33am

That is a big surprise hearing that Wrights have won this new contract. I have not looked at the full specs of this new of buses yet. The battery ranges that are offered within them do sound impressive for their capability.

However I hope Wrights are able to build a much better bus than the SG's in terms of their build quality. I still rate the VG's & Euro 5 GT's are the more superior double deck bus when you compare them to the SG's.

I still find the SG's not bad to use when I'm using Dublin Bus or GAI. But I still think they maybe a little bit slow on the road for my liking than then the other Gemini buses.

bk · 18-01-2022 11:57am

"I still find the SG's not bad to use when I'm using Dublin Bus or GAI. But I still think they maybe a little bit slow on the road for my liking than then the other Gemini buses."

I don't think this should be a problem with these or any EV bus. At least if it is, you are doing something very wrong. EV's by their nature of using electric motors should have excellent torque and thus great acceleration. Should be better then any non EV bus. Part of the reason for the SG's being a bit underwhelming versus older buses is the need for a more fuel effecient and less polluting engine, which can lead to slightly underpowered engines. EV's should largely solve this and give you the best of both worlds.

Though obviously we will have to see how build quality is in general, along with quality of batteries and drive train.

To be honest, I'm a little more nervous about it, then if ADL/BYD had won the contract. ADL/BYD have lots of experience with EV buses, Wrights are more unproven IMO.

dublinman1990 · 19-01-2022 9:17am

Yep. I think one of the key questions to ask here, solely about Wrights ability to build these new battery electric buses properly, is which operators are saying that they have become a really good purchase for their own fleet while they have acquired them for bus routes within their own operations.

If Wrights can be trusted once again by the NTA to build these new products to a very high standard; their own reputation will improve significantly over the next number of years particularly when Brexit & Climate Change are now with us.

The NTA are a very important customer for Wrights in the Irish market. The NTA must have been very impressed with seeing the potential of the new buses being manufactured in Wrights factory seeing they have the new Hydrogen trial buses for Bus Eireann already.

Peregrine · 21-01-2022 8:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493584#Comment_118493584

Yeah, build quality and capacity would be my concern as be opposed to acceleration which would be much better than any diesel.

This is what I think Wrightbus's business looks like right now:

Multiple small orders for hydrogen single and double deck buses from UK operators who wish to trial the technology
Unknown number of diesel buses
Large order of electric buses for Translink consisting of 80 double deck Streetdeck Electroliners (which is what the NTA are buying) for delivery in 2021-2022. 10 further Streetdeck Electroliners and 28 single deck GB Kite Electroliners have also been ordered for Derry for delivery in late 2022-2023.

An initial order of 120 Streetdeck Electroliners from the NTA for delivery in 2023 (which will undoubtedly be followed up with more orders next year) would completely change their order book and would make the NTA their largest customer.

LXFlyer · 21-01-2022 9:39pm

From the grapevine I believe that it is fair to say that ADL have not covered themselves in glory by any measure with regard to support for the hybrids.

That may be influencing change.

Peregrine · 14-02-2022 3:51pm

The latest on the single deck electric buses is that the initial batch of 11 buses is expected to be delivered in June/July followed by testing. They're expected to be operational in Athlone at the end of the year. The contractor for the charging infrastructure at the BÉ depot will be appointed soon and work is ongoing on the ESB side to facilitate them.

Similarly, DB will appoint contractors for their Dublin depots.

p_haugh · 18-02-2022 12:58am

This was in the march edition of the BUSES magazine, still no official announcement as of yet though.

Peregrine · 18-02-2022 1:18am

An early batch of the Wrightbus Electroliners will arrive this year around autumn. Then it'll be 2023 by the time the rest of the order starts getting delivered.

d51984 · 30-03-2022 4:30pm

The following photos are copyright to Adrian Richards.

This arrived in to Broadstone earlier in the week, prior to the delivery of our own ones. I don't think it will enter general traffic though.

dublinman1990 · 30-03-2022 5:31pm

Very nice. How many seats are in this bus?

d51984 · 30-03-2022 6:36pm

It's only a small wheel base version as far as I can tell. It has tables towards the back too. I'm guessing 30 odd seats.

Our own ones ordered are the longer ones and will have the same interior seating as the PA PAD type bus.

DaBluBoi · 31-03-2022 12:05am

I'm assuming it's for training then?

Peregrine · 08-04-2022 12:15pm

It definitely won't enter regular service.

dublinman1990 · 10-04-2022 2:50am

I'm currently reading a sustainability report published by Go-Ahead Ireland on their website. It says both on page 3 & page 14 in their report that GAI won't be receiving their 1st batch of electric buses in their fleet until 2025. They say that they aim to have a fully electric fleet by 2032. Is that correct?

https://images-goaheadireland.passenger-website.com/downloads/Go-Ahead%20Ireland%202021%20Sustainability%20Report.pdf

By reading those pieces of the report linked above, that could tell me that they are not getting the new PA's for the W4/W6 unless that piece of information is completely untrue.

They said they will be getting more diesel buses in their fleet when they get more BusConnects routes for Phase 3, which is the W4/W6, from August. However they don't mention having any new BusConnects routes in place for phase 4 this year. I would assume Phase 4 for GAI will begin next year.

Peregrine · 10-04-2022 10:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118905218#Comment_118905218

Phase 3 is N4/N6. N6 will be operated by GAI using SGs like the current 17A so they would get more diesels for phase 3.

Phase 4 is W4/W6 but GAI winning that contract hasn't been announced yet so it makes sense that it wouldn't be in the report. They may get PAs or, more likely, they'll get SGs from DB to avoid the need for any additional training.

2032 is when all NTA city and town services will be 100% electric so that sounds about right. Although, GAI operate a few coaches too for which there are no decarbonisation plans AFAIK.

Jamie2k9 · 13-04-2022 7:36pm

Is there a known stop button on the PAs, been on a few services and various bells don't work, most noteable those left and right of the center doors if coming from the back of the bus.

mikeybhoy · 13-04-2022 9:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908767#Comment_118908767

Wonder what will happen to the AXs GAI have on loan from DB for their school time extras considering all DBs AXs have been withdrawn.

I wonder what will happen to those routes too considering they were only supposed to be brought in as extra capacity when social distancing capacity restrictions were in place on public transport and I don't see any plan for them in Bus Connects proposals.

Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

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The following photos are copyright to Adrian Richards.