Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Unfortunately, this is not a uniquely Irish problem. Just look at what goes on over in the States of across the pond, and one can see that infantilisation of the adult population is universal to the West.

Personally, I would be in favour of tax cuts across the board with corresponding reductions in the size of the state to go along with it. Giving the state more tax will only perpetuate the problems that currently exist. The state is a bloated monstrosity of waste. It's well past time for a crash diet.

I think that the world is heading east. Europe is too far along the welfare gravy train to jump off without serious damage. I think we missed the golden opportunity to get the ship in order during the financial crisis of '08, but we merely doubled down and kicked the can up the road. I don't feel optimistic about the next few decades at all.

Why 55k?

In a country where tax receipts are at record levels, suddenly low income workers are the problem. Those who kept the country ticking over while the wealthy were printing money to drive up asset prices.

Maybe we have too many people on high incomes with limited intelligence.

I've never been a fan of the EU. To me, a grand alliance of states that have centuries of animosity between them was never going to be smooth sailing. This is not the United States, and whilst we may all be Europeans, there isn't a lot to unit us. Living beside each other without wars is all that the EU needs to deliver, but it seems that somewhere along the line it became something else.

As things stand, we face a situation where owning a home will go from being a reasonable aspiration for anyone willing to work to being a pipe dream for an increasing proportion of the population. The question is whether these younger generations will accept this "new normal" (to borrow a neologism) or whether they will seek to correct it. I personally am starting to look at my parents, aunts and uncles and older relatives in general and raising my eyebrows as they talk of retirement at 60 and what to do with their holiday homes. I'm not one to indulge the green-eyed monster, but my patience is wearing thin. The older generations have benefited very well from the state and seem to have little worry about how those younger than them will fare now that the bill for their indulgences is arriving.

In my opinion, the rising popularity of figures like La Penn, whether or not she achieves the office she seeks, speaks to a change. The current Western model, as embodied by figures just like the dancing peacock over in Canada, is crippling the middle class and those just below it. Something has to change, so let the change roll in!

The people in the first 4 categories most likely spend all their income to cover a basic enough cost of living some may even need subsidies, but work should always be rewarded more than SW.

Spending all their income means they pay significant vat in proportion to their total income.

In the 80k bracket, people can offset their tax with pension contributions at the higher rate of tax. If done, they can bring their effective tax rate down to very close to the person on 40k.

With regard to self employed. There is a spirit of reselience and entrepreneurship in this sector that I feel should be rewarded. Alot to be said for people that have the get up and go to do things for themselves.

The average full time worker in the country earns about 50k at the moment. Earning are skewed by the amount of mostly students working part-time.

In general earnings in Dublin would be running 10% above national averages. The median wage in Dublin is probably near 50k. Add to this that when you look at earning it PAYE workers you are looking at. A lit of the self employed have the ability to shelter earnings.

Bang on. But they keep doing it... And right in front of our faces. Everytime time I see our housing minister on rte, I get instant elevated blood pressure!! This madness has to stop. I really do hope everything goes bang, a mass reset is what's needed.

SF won't do diddly squat. The Left, for the most part, are no threat to globalism as they represent an ideology that goes well with consumerism. Mass immigration, social housing and big spending in general by the state makes corporations salivate as there are plenty of government contracts to be snatched up. All that SF will do is promise the earth, the moon and the stars and burn out the funny-money press trying to deliver it.

We're beyond the point of fixing things with an election. As I've said before, the Irish civil service has been filled to the brim with people who are hell-bent on pushing globalist agenda either because they are invested in it or, even worse, because they are utopian ideologues. These people don't come and go with elections, and if any politician tried to take them on, the media and the Twitter harpies would drag them through the mud.

However, let's not fool ourselves into thinking that this is some dark cabal that has taken over the country. The Irish electorate has, for decades, voted in parties who espouse the above. Furthermore, the bureaucrats who fill the ranks of the civil service are not some alien lizard people (though in some cases, I could be convinced otherwise). Rather, they comprise Irish people and are representative of the status quo of the population. What I’m saying here is that none of this was really forced upon us. Whilst there was and always will be manipulation though the media by interest groups, at the end of the day, the Irish people chose to sow the harvest that we are now reaping.  

I think anyone buying a house in the next 6 months should be prepared to go into negative equity

That's fair that people would not buy them at their current price of 400k, but that is because we need a decline to continue. By not allowing funds to purchase these properties (and others) they will sit on the market a depreciate in value until they reach an amount that the general populous deems acceptable and then begins to purchase them. The less properties funds can buy into, the more on the open market, the lower the price because demand wouldn't outweigh supply by as much as it does now, and the better off we'd all be. It wouldn't "fix" the situation. There is no silver bullet, but it would start a reduction in prices.

I’m not suggesting some sort of insurgence. Rather, I’m merely saying that anyone who thinks that voting out FF/FG will bring a change is deluding themselves.  

i do completely agree with this statement, we ve no real ideas on how to resolve our property problems, and absolutely, sf wont come in waving magic wands, this is gonna take years, if not decades to resolve, dont be surprised if the situation deteriorates under sf, theyre gonna struggle....

the problem goes far beyond ffg, other major institutions such as the ecb are helping to worsen the situation, we re stuck in a catastrophic failure at a fundamental level, possible/probably a catastrophic collapse, and nobody knows where it ll end up.....

sf will also be stuck in this situation, with severe limitations in place in order to change things, we re all waiting for more global changes to occur...

Probably a quote that sums up housing

"The construction/housing sector is like a spoilt child, the more money you throw at it, the more it comes back looking for more"

Lorcan Sirr on the Mick Clifford podcast

You may have noted from headlines yesterday that the construction raised concerns over building pre fabs for refugees. They feel that there inferior quality may damage there reputation.

There reputation must have been of little importance in the recent past.

Note the difference in money paid out by European governments in redress and shoddy workmanship compared to Ireland plus the degree of potential defects left incovered

I don't see how prices can fall at all - building inflation is rediculous, the government is buying half of all new builds at present and the housing minister said recently they'll need 35k houses for Ukrainians that stay on permanently over the next 5 years iirc. Until the IMF are back in town I can't see prices falling!!

Just buy.

you save 20k a year in rent on a 370k house.. so in 4y you’re covered for any “crash”.

Wondered if highlighting articles like below internationally could it embarrass the government enough to flush out the empty properties. Shame them into doing something.

They don't appear to be overly concerned about voters opinion as political pensions are akin to winning the lotto, so they are heavily rewarded regardless of success or failure.