Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Listening to Ukrainecast and there is big internal debate within NATO about wether to give “big” anti ship missiles because it might provoke the Russians… they think small anti ship missiles should only be given…… crimes against humanity happening a few miles away and they are worried about giving the Ukraine missiles that are too big and effective

"all options are on the table" when uttered by a nuclear power – is diplomatic speak for: "the potential for a nuclear response". It is a nuclear threat.

In theory it means what the other posters have said. In reality means a few more sanctions, a few more defensive weapons, and a few more thoughts and prayers

Means we will give them as little as possible so we dont piss putin of to much but enough not to let putin win either

Yes I agree it will mean they will unleash their next set of almighty sanctions that may irratate the Russians a tiny bit more...

All this talk of threat of nuclear weapons is utter nonsense.

Of course it's possible they are doing things without announcing them; but the language out of NATO as a whole and Germany in particular suggests they're just not willing to transfer what they keep calling "offensive" weapons.

Individual nations seem to have leeway to make transfers unilaterally but it also seems that NATO is making it very clear that those transfers should only be of equipment Ukraine currently operates. Or at the very least must be equivalent to capabilities Ukraine already has.

I also believe a large part of supplying these weapons will be as political pressure on Russia and as political support for Ukraine; both things which are best served by being fairly open about equipment that might be sent.

And the other thing is that NATO absolutely does not want some piece of NATO equipment being spotted in Ukraine out of the blue and for Russia to assess it as a direct NATO involvement or to use it for propaganda purposes; so I would expect any NATO equipment transfers to be announced widely before they make their way into Ukraine.

Well spoken sir. From the country whose economy is based on being a safe haven for war loot and other ill-gotten gains.

Morality play? You're never going to understand?

What a pathetic statement. I simply said they need to be given weapons that will make a difference.

Who voted you as the analytical genius of Boards? Obviously just yourself.

Your kind represent all that's worst about Boards... you cant post a decent response without including sarcastic, barbed comments and implying others are not at your mastermind level of understanding. Pretty sad really.

I think we've gone past that stage as I'm sure that Putin and his Kremlin cronies already view this as a proxy war, and it's already being portrayed as such to the Russian populace.

I can see nothing but serious escalation from hereon in.

Unfortunately these things happen in war. Russian soldiers are quite brutal, and sadly this wasn't unexpected.

I’m not defending Switzerland. I’m saying people on this forum keep going on about the impotent west. Meanwhile Ireland offers nothing. Would the Irish population accept a 10% Ukraine tax to help fund western military intervention? Because war is not cheap unlike posting on a forum. It’s easy to give out about France, Germany, NATO etc when Ireland had nothing to lose but more expensive petrol prices etc.

you’re poorly educated if you think that is how the Swiss economy is funded by the way.

Yes but nobody is prescient; nobody knows what the end result of any decision is likely to be.

And even worse the so-called intelligence apparatuses badly misread Putin and Russia on this conflict and at multiple points in the past: why would the politicians let alone Johnny Public trust their assessments now?

I can only see escalation happening after clear verification of some concrete change on the ground rather than the other way around; and those escalations from the West are likely to be the same as they have been until this point: economic sanctions, political rebukes, and additional military aid which keeps Ukraine fighting but doesn’t give them the ability to reach into Russia or threaten their air or sea assets in a meaningful way.