"Green" policies are destroying this country

Danno · 12-04-2022 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914792#Comment_118914792

this thread is full of pub talk

The talk coming out of the green movement is like a special cafe in Amsterdam.

Pa ElGrande · 12-04-2022 9:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915020#Comment_118915020

You know since man arrived on this island ~8000 years ago. From the get go we have done the following:

Built one off housing. (e.g. ring forts and crannógs, huts on the Skelligs. Undoubtedly many houses were recycled in that time.)
Farmed cattle, sheep and pigs. The Normans introduced the rabbits.
Increased the biodiversity found in the country. (many tree species and practically all food we grow was introduced and most of it is genetically modified (we used to call it cross breeding). Those deer in the Phoenix park are a non-native species.
The first roads were to move cattle, hence the word Bóthar. There is evidence of ancient road construction across the bog.
Hunting. There are no wolves left, as a consequence cattle can graze safely and they are generally docile & manageable. We manage the animal population not the wolves. Have you ever seen how wolves kill their prey?
We cleared the forests and drained the land and made it habitable. Believe it or not mosquitos spreading malaria were once a problem in Ireland.
We extracted gold and other minerals from the land.
We traded with other countries. Flints from Northern Ireland have been found across the continent. The Book of Kells contains material obtained from Afghanistan. Globalisation has been going on for a few thousand years and we have always been a part of it.

Are you saying that Greens want to restore the island to its primordial state before our distant ancestors even set foot on the country? Thus wiping out 8,000 years of tradition that has entirely reshaped the country in a manner that has made the island much safer to live, more productive while at the same time improving its biodiversity under our stewardship. Think about that next time you look around there is very little of this country that has not been shaped by the the combined actions of our ancestors.

12-04-2022 9:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918266#Comment_118918266

Seeing as you ruled out the UK for.....reasons, there's little point in trying to discuss further. Regardless of whichever country I provided you would return with the "Ireland is a special case" or "Ireland is different because x, y or z". Truth of it is it doesn't matter which country I provided as one-off housing is inefficient and unsustainable. Demographics have little bearing on that. Good to see it being more and more difficult to actual do it here now though. Things are looking up

Danno · 12-04-2022 9:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118917371#Comment_118917371

Holland

Ribbon development example one

Ribbon development example two

Ribbon development example three

Denmark

One-off housing example one

One-off housing example two

One-off housing example three

Spain

One-off housing example one

One-off housing example two

One-off housing example three

France

One-off housing example one

One-off housing example two

One-off housing example three

Norway

One-off housing example one

One-off housing example two

One-off housing example three

Yeah right @[Deleted User] - banned my hoop.

Mecanudo · 12-04-2022 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918477#Comment_118918477

there's little point in trying to discuss further.

Why not? You could at least make an attempt to back up the point you were trying to make rather than just hand waving you know.

You've also throwing out various oft repeated but unsupported green party generalities like "one-off housing is inefficient and unsustainable". When that's bs

Much of the housing in rural areas has been built over the last century and is an important part of our national housing stock. But more importantly these houses provide homes for the many people who live and work in rural areas.

This bizarre infatuation by various green Party advocates, with those who live in rural areas and their houses is inexplicable.

And all planning laws whether in cities or towns have become a lot more onerous. Imo its one of the reasons we now have a housing shortage in this country. And we have geniuses in the green party and similar who would advocate moving everyone into cities when the cities are bursting at the seams!

Suggesting ditching approx half of our housing stock for their own bizarre fantasies of wolves running free or similar is truly and utterly bananas

brokenangel · 12-04-2022 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918564#Comment_118918564

What are we supposed to tell from a Google image?

Apart from you have a lot of time on your hands

Pa ElGrande · 12-04-2022 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918611#Comment_118918611

This bizarre infatuation by various green Party advocates, with those who live in rural areas and their houses is inexplicable.

This particular obsession is inherited from a government funded NGO that predates the founding of the Green party. That NGO is called An Taisce. These days An Taisce is a subsidiary of the Green party. An Taisce if they get their way will object to any development in rural Ireland that advances beyond a lime washed cottage with thatched roof.

12-04-2022 10:09pm

Some quality monthy python material on this thread I have to say.

Let's wait until next winter and see how popular the greens are when houses are cold oil is more expensive and turf and coal at a premium. Turf half banned for some.

On top of paying a fortune for travelling to work for fuel.

Everyone including people reliant on fossil fuel want to support and live in a clean environment. I mean who doesn't?

However realism is gone out the A rated window here.

Timing and costs are completely misaligned by the greens.

If zero emissions by 2030, are required let's see ALL government owned properties get an NZEB retrofit and all work/ fleet/ ministers cars etc vehicles Electric.

Then subsidise heavily retro fitting of older housing stock for working people. Or make the grant process the same as social payment claimants.

That might put some reality on the fairly take thats happening now of us all having to buy EVs and retro fit houses at a massive cost at a very turbulent time.

Lead by example Greens!

Danno · 12-04-2022 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918477#Comment_118918477

United Kingdom

Example one of one-off housing

Example two of one-off housing

Example three of one-off housing

Danno · 12-04-2022 10:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918687#Comment_118918687

You see - when someone posts that one-off housing, ribbon development and similar developments are "banned in virtually all developed countries" then it's time to call them out on their BS.

12-04-2022 10:53pm

I swear some people here commenting have never been to England. Drive around rural England and rural Ireland and two things are striking. 1. Waaaaay more one off housing in Ireland and 2. one off housing in England is much more in keeping with the local environment (the same stone as the neighbouring village etc)

planning is obviously and visibly much more rigorous and anyone who can’t see that is, frankly, blind or flat out lying

paddyisreal · 12-04-2022 11:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918477#Comment_118918477

Ok leave the like for like comparison out of it. Name a country in europe where one off housing banned, i think you will find like ireland its rwstricted not banned

Mecanudo · 12-04-2022 11:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919001#Comment_118919001

Ireland, going way back into history has had a long long tradition of dispersed settlement right from earliest times to later street towns where small plots of land spaced along roads were the only place poor people had to erect their cottages.

Unfortunately much of our older rural housing stock was so poorly built because of poverty - and large proportion of this housing had to be replaced. And this new housing continued to respect much the traditional patterns of settlements

In the countryside in Ireland today, the labourers cottage, land commission houses and later board of health houses are still very much in evidence. These were practical, unadorned and economically built houses for people who lived and worked in these rural areas. In the 1970s with many of these older houses reaching their end of life, were replaced by those who lived there with the now infamous bungalow. Later slightly better built houses of various designs became the norm.

England is not Ireland and whilst there are indeed many modern once off houses just about everywhere there - their traditional housing stock of cottages and farmsteads tended to be much better built, because rich landlords were happy to patronise houses for their tenants in local villages and towns . Many of the same rich landlords which left Irish people in penury.

If you believe planning in Ireland is not "rigourous" now then I suggest you submit plans to build a new house in any county in Ireland. Come back and tell us how you get on.

And we can judge who is really "blind or flat out lying"

Backstreet Moyes · 13-04-2022 11:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118917646#Comment_118917646

You are on another thread saying we should take in as many immigrants as possible because it is great.

We don't have enough houses to give irish people yet alone immigrants.

Then you are here cheering on the idea of us not building houses to give people.

You are not making much sense really.

brokenangel · 13-04-2022 12:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920429#Comment_118920429

Building houses in town/villages/cities is the way forward for Ireland so we have services already available for the houses

Danno · 13-04-2022 12:23pm

Why retrofiting homes will be hard for low income households (rte.ie)

Already the plans are falling flat on their face:

Our research examined the views of 120 households with low disposable income who are active clients of the North Dublin Money Advice and Budgeting Service (MABS). Inadequate disposable income emerges strongly as a key barrier to engagement with retrofitting schemes for these households. A little under two thirds of those surveyed qualified for free upgrades but a mere 8% had availed of the supports, mostly in the form of lagging jackets, low energy light bulbs and attic insulation. Over a third of those surveyed did not qualify for free upgrades and were already financially squeezed with no scope to engage in upgrades. These households were either unable or unwilling to access credit to upgrade their homes.

Less than a third of all low disposable income households were aware of the availability of retrofit grants. Almost 90% said that the cost of the work was either an important or very important factor in the household decision to engage in energy upgrades while half of all households were unlikely or very unlikely to invest in any kind of retrofitting. Promisingly, almost all households had changed aspects of household energy consumption behaviour, such as turning off the heating, turning off lights, taking shorter showers and switching off unused devices, showing a strong awareness of strategies to reduce energy consumption and a willingness to engage.

Crazy stuff. This is the front line of the green action - over 33% of people who are living week-to-week and already in very poor financial condition are unable to avail of retrofitting measures. Shame on the green movement who actively work against folks making their financial situation more dire through obscene carbon taxes.

brokenangel · 13-04-2022 1:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920633#Comment_118920633

😂

The "Green movement"?

Every political party in Ireland has a green agenda. Majority of the carbon tax increases happened during the Green party not in government.

None of the parties have asked to get rid of carbon tax

All of the parties, well the main ones anyway including those in opposition voted for the Paris agreement.

Ireland has 1.9m households after a quick search, yet you are talking about 120 households as some sort of example. Do you have details of the 1.9m in Ireland how many need a retrofit? how many can be just upgraded? how many need nothing done at all?

Once you have that information do you have the numbers on how many cannot afford? then if we have that information I would expect the government to see how they can fix.

The problem I have with these types of post is that the person behind doesn't seem to care abotu the people affected, its just the latest thing to fire out as a pop at some party and then they move onto the next. Maybe we should spend some time and figure out how many people are actually in this predicament and next time a TD lands at your door ask if they are going to sort out the XXXX houses that need this help? maybe I am wrong and they do care but it doesn't read like that to me

paddyisreal · 13-04-2022 1:29pm

So the tail is wagging the dog, no reduction in vat on home heating oil or solid fuels. Fg, ff will end up like the greens carrying on with this shite. The shinners must be loving this

Danno · 13-04-2022 1:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920818#Comment_118920818

😂

It's amazing how the green movement always have a lol at those who are impacted by what they advocate. Yea show yourselves up for the sneering tossers that yea are.

The "Green movement"? do you actually have an idea what you talking about?

The green movement includes people from most political parties - hence green movement, and not just green party, though all the green party are past of the green movement. All dogs are animals, but not all animals are dogs - very apt in this situation.

Every political party in Ireland has a green agenda. Majority of the carbon tax increases happened during the Green party not in government.

Green Party and by extension alot of the green movement advocate for carbon taxes. Own what you campaign for.

None of the parties have asked to get rid of carbon tax

SF have, Rural Independents have. So wrong.

All of the parties, well the main ones anyway including those in opposition voted for the Paris agreement.

So did alot of other countries such as China and India and are not doing much to achieve it's aims. It's not a fully binding agreement - much more like a bet with one of the lads down the pub over a match.

Ireland has 1.9m households after a quick search, yet you are talking about 120 households as some sort of example.

You think they just happened upon the hardest 120 households which happened to be in a small area of north Dublin? If you're making small of the number of houses - why then in turn do you bleet on about C02 emissions per capita as opposed to our total emissions as a country in the global context - bit more of the double-standard weaselling your way out of facts that cut through your mantra.

Do you have details of the 1.9m in Ireland how many need a retrofit? how many can be just upgraded? how many need nothing done at all?

Considering the Green Party have stated they want 500,000 houses upgraded by 2030 it means there are alot of houses out there needing work to meet the strictest criteria demanded by the green movement.

Once you have that information do you have the numbers on how many cannot afford?

We already know that 370,000 households are in receipt of Fuel Allowance. We also know that 53,000 households are on WFP (and you cannot get Fuel Allowance while working) and that 53k in 2018 numbers, so probably more now.

then if we have that information I would expect the government to see how they can fix.

Government fix it? You have a lot of faith. Besides - the government shouldn't be starting out on massive projects like this without working out exactly how much work needs doing and at what cost to the taxpayer. But as per usual with projects the green movement insist on - do it now and ask questions later.

Mecanudo · 13-04-2022 2:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920587#Comment_118920587

Who is this "we" Kemosabe?

Moving people from rural areas into villages, towns and cities which lack necessary services or where those services are not fit for purpose, such as raw sewerage being pumped into Dublin Bay or areas where there's already significant shortages of decent houses is a completely hairbrained idea.

It's simply yet another green party communist inspired notion which looks to promote centralised government over basic freedoms. So expect lots of herding of peasants into Soviet style 'apartment' blocks where the means of production will be increasingly concentrated in the hands of the few and everything you do will be carefully watched and enumerated and where granny in her small house in the "middle of nowhere" will be fined for gathering sticks to light her fire.

Welcome to our brave New world ruled by green autocrats.

Furze99 · 13-04-2022 3:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920928#Comment_118920928

And no mention of mitigation for carbon taxes on motor fuels. These ideas being mooted are straightforward discrimination against those living in lesser populated rural parts. It represents a transfer of wealth from same to pay for urban retrofits and cheaper gas heating there.

No matter how you look at it, this is Green policy and it's clear they don't give a s**t anymore about rural Ireland, they've no votes here and are openly sucking up to the metropolitan voter.

DarkJager21 · 13-04-2022 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921519#Comment_118921519

Leafy suburb spoofers like their voting base, maybe we should restrict these frankly retarded green policies to urban areas only and see how popular they remain then?

brokenangel · 13-04-2022 3:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920988#Comment_118920988

SF called to remove the increase in May, not to remove carbon tax totally.

Danno · 13-04-2022 3:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921578#Comment_118921578

Carbon Tax

The carbon tax increase will make people poorer, but it will not make the state greener or cleaner. It is a regressive tax, the sole purpose of which is to raise funds. Any further increase will widen poverty and inequality and will hit low to middle income households harder. All the talk of using it for climate action is a ruse because the alternatives are not in place nor will they be in place under a Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil Government.

We know the barriers to climate action in this state and the main one is the lack of investment. We are still suffering from the consequences of almost a decade of cuts in capital expenditure. Nowhere is this seen more clearly than in our public transport system. People cannot shift from private to public transport if no alternatives are available. The pathway is clear - we need to dramatically increase our investment in public transport and renewable energy. Until we do that, increase in the carbon tax will only penalise people for not being wealthy enough to make changes.

Sinn Féin priority: No carbon tax increases in the absence of viable alternatives

From: Giving_Workers_and_Families_a_Break_-_A_Manifesto_for_Change.pdf (sinnfein.ie)

So, wrong again. SF in their 2020 election manifesto wanted to pause Carbon Tax increases at levels of 2019. Your asserting that SF have only recently starting opposing carbon taxes is misleading and more mis-information.

Sinn Fein opposes carbon tax rise in climate action report (greennews.ie) <<< Another article from early 2019 where they again opposed increases in carbon taxes and this time from a green movement newsletter.

Disclaimer: I'm not a SF supporter or have ever voted SF my No.1

brokenangel · 13-04-2022 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921829#Comment_118921829

SF don't want to remove carbon tax as I said. They want to stop the increase. Doesn't matter if that 2019 or 2022

Ask them now and all they want to do is stop the 2022 increase.

Danno · 13-04-2022 4:53pm

They have said in the past that they would work towards abolishing it and replacing it with a wealth tax on earners above €150k.

13-04-2022 5:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920429#Comment_118920429

3 words

Location, location, location.

brokenangel · 13-04-2022 5:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922059#Comment_118922059

The wealth tax is now 100k and has nothing to do with the carbon tax. It is to cover paying for the removal of LPT which is a tax break for the rich

They have no plan to remove carbon tax and any postponement now will be started again in future

13-04-2022 5:16pm

SF can say whatever they want in opposition. Their sums rarely add up but then that doesn't really matter when they're going for the populist approach. Only a complete moron would believe they'll do a quarter of what they say.

I've no doubt it'll be a different story regarding taxes when they eventually get into power (whenever that might be).

It should also be noted that a large amount of the climate action framework will not be easy to take apart or ignore. Its been built in such a way as to be legally binding, regardless of the govt of the day and the govt can be forced into following through by the courts should they try to weasel out of it. Make no mistake, there'll be a queue of cases lined up should SF decide to take that approach.

That won't happen though as SF fully supported the plan, in fact virtually all TD's did, with only a handful voting against it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/climate-action-bill-adopted-in-the-d%C3%A1il-by-majority-of-129-votes-to-10-1.4595471

RandomViewer · 13-04-2022 5:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919001#Comment_118919001

Then you watch Grand Designs and see stuff that would never be allowed built here,

"Green" policies are destroying this country

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