Russia - threadbanned users in OP

I doubt Putin was misled though. it's far more the case that he is a dictator / autocrat and only hears what he wants to hear. If he's sacking or jailing people, it's just about making them scapegoats and trying to deflect attention away from himself.

NATO should immediately revise its rules and regulations eg take Moldavia or Georgia and give them temporary/junior / guest membership immediately if they agree to the concept . Basic agreements could include the following

• you will be supported in the same way, with immediate effect , as if you are a full member
• you will not be asked to contribute any finance to NATO for the first 10 years
• you will strive towards becoming a full NATO member within the 10 years
• you will have fully complied with all NATOs regulations by year 10
• You will not do anything contrary to NATO policy/strategy

THE ABOVE SHOULD STOP PUTIN IN HIS TRACKS

I reiterate again- we are being taken for absolute idiots in the west by these scumbags;

Im sick of it- deport, deport, deport- now.

I think in a corrupt country, dealing with corrupt people, money speaks volume.

So this bill from Ukrainian parlament may actually work:

The new law sets out that the following financial rewards be offered for military equipment (amounts in US dollars):

- Combat aircraft (fighter and assault aircraft) – 1,000,000;

- Combat helicopter – 500,000;

- Reactive volley fire system – 25,000-35,000;

- Tank, ground artillery (self-propelled) – 100,000;

- Infantry fighting vehicle (landing), armoured personnel carrier, armoured reconnaissance patrol vehicle – 50,000;

- Military vehicle (truck, specialised), military tractor, military engineering vehicles: reconnaissance, demining, mine barriers, bridges, fencing, for paving roads, for earthworks, to overcome water obstacles – 10,000;

- Ships of 1st or 2nd rank – 1,000,000;

- Ships of 3rd or 4th rank – 500,000;

- Ships of military (auxiliary) support – 200,000;

- Ships of small combat (reconnaissance) purpose – 50,000.

It's only a question, when Russian soldiers will know about it.

All the time peddling this threat, you are playing into Putins hands. He made this threat for a reason, to scare people like you....

No; but the preponderance of evidence points to these calls being genuine. In particular:

• Ukrainian SBU has been releasing all kinds of Russian recordings over the years; in particular Russian military communications which have been widely discussed and distributed by intelligence types.
• Witnesses and journalists and defence correspondents corroborate many of the things reported in these calls; often some days after the calls are originally released.
• Just about every human being can detect human emotion through spoken language without necessarily understanding the language itself; especially strong emotion.
• There is no credible refutation I've seen from actual native speakers on any of the recordings I've listened to.

I accept your point that these calls are clearly propaganda; and equally point out that propaganda by definition does not mean it is fabricated. There is a tendency for some people to use the word to mean "something false" whereas the real meaning is "information which tends to support one side or view".

I mean sure; out of 200,000 troops there are bound to be some number who are decent people. In fact I'm sure most of them are relatively "decent" if your standard of decency is not executing civilians or raping. I wonder how many of these "decent" people might actually speak out or act against their less "decent" colleagues?

I think the only thing that's clear at this stage is the Russian armed forces at best do nothing to discourage or punish these types of abuses; and at worst it is a core part of their strategy which is actively incorporated at every level and in every unit.

Soon that could buy you a lot of roubles.

Because its chicken little stuff. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Yes there's a potential for nuclear to be used but that potential has been there since the day it was invented. Putin blowing air threatening countries if they helped Ukraine has already proven to be a load of shite. He's like the little knacker shouting hold me back, hold me back when he's squaring up to a lad he knows would kick his head clean off his shoulders.

There are so many levels this would need to escalate by in order to ever go nuclear. Just like the mental suggestion earlier that the west should strike Russia first. Its complete muck. If a nuclear strike ever happens it would be initiated by a Russia or North Korea and this is only ever going to happen where there is an incursion inside their country and they fear being overthrown. We have not nor will we reach that point. Russia will be driven back inside its borders. Every country surrounding it will arm itself to the teeth and the international community will isolate it.