Disciplinary Hearing

fg10291 · 12-04-2022 8:02pm #1

Hi, have been asked to attend a disciplinary meeting, employer is telling me I can bring in a work colleague, but I want to bring in someone who has experience in this area but is not a solicitor. I am not a member of a trade union.....not asking for legal advice just what are my rights in this circumstance, thanks.

Former Former Former · 12-04-2022 8:11pm

No, it must be a coworker or union rep

It cannot be someone unconnected to the business.

...Ghost... · 12-04-2022 8:18pm

If I were you, I would say there is no colleague I felt was suitable as a witness. I would give my preference to an outside person and state that unless company secrets were to be discussed, I can choose my witness outside of staff. I would seek to record the meeting, but would only make this known as I entered the room and placed my phone down on the table "just so we both have a reference of the meeting and there is no confusion later".

Jim_Hodge · 12-04-2022 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918246#Comment_118918246

If it's like all other grievance/disciplinary procedures it would also only permit colleagues or union reps.

fg10291 · 12-04-2022 8:32pm

Thanks for the replies folks......i like this ..... "would say there is no colleague I felt was suitable as a witness. I would give my preference to an outside person and state that unless company secrets were to be discussed, I can choose my witness outside of staff...... "

Our grievance policy specifically precludes recording

...Ghost... · 12-04-2022 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918246#Comment_118918246

Precludes audio recording? Then it's a pen and notepad and signatures at the end. Very long meeting it would be. But its important the details are properly recorded because otherwise its one word against another as to what was really said. Preparation pays off.

fg10291 · 12-04-2022 8:55pm

Yes no audio....it will be a pen and paper job...preparing now thanks

Jim2007 · 12-04-2022 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918246#Comment_118918246

You may like it, but when they say no, your next step will be? These are fairly standard procedures, failing to participate may not be an advisable way to go.

fg10291 · 12-04-2022 9:36pm

No risk of not participating just wanted to see what the options if any were

12-04-2022 10:29pm

First things first....

1. Have you been given clear & ample time to prepare for the meeting.

2. Have the reasons / allegations of the breach of company policy been clearly laid out.

3. Do you have a clearly worded contract of employment / copy of the company rules & regs.

4. Have you been made aware of who's on the "other" side of table ( usually line manager & someone from HR who will be the note-taker).

5. Do NOT agree to any wrongdoing / aggregation.... like the shaggy song... " it wasn't me".

6. Take your time at hearing..... ' I don't understand the allegation '.... " I'm confused as to why we're here"...." I'd like time to consider matters...id ask for an adjournment "..... " I'd like an opportunity to question XY & Z"....." ive been here X number of years & never had any disciplinary issues...i find this process quite intimidating "..etc.etc.

7. Assuming there's a negative 'ruling' against you....what is the appeal process.

-----------------------------

Disciplinary hearing are a nightmare for employers.... there's an awful lot of trapdoors...... do loads of homework....let no stone unturned.....be prepared for every angle / direction it may go. I'm not keen on paying union dues every month but it IS money well spent in these situations

fg10291 · 13-04-2022 9:20am

Thanks Ken a for the info......lots to take on board there.

Have had plenty of time to prepare and a clear idea of whats coming so just getting my ducks in a row.

Thanks Again

13-04-2022 5:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919798#Comment_118919798

So, the basics are....

DO NOT go in solo

DO NOT AGREE to anything on the day........ even your date of birth is suddenly confusing to you.

These things are always a 'game' of chess/ snooker... you got to be thinking 2 shots ahead......if there is an 'ambush' call for an adjournment

POBox19 · 13-04-2022 5:39pm

If there is a Trade Union in the company, join and bring their professional rep with you.

13-04-2022 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918861#Comment_118918861

As a public servant I was in a disciplinary hearing on suspicion I was taking sick leave for a non-authentic condition, and had Union representation which was worthless in that the rep seemed way over friendly & agreeable with the person conducting the hearing, and never raised a question.

The hearing was conducted across enormous double tables reminiscent of Putin and the person conducting it had never heard of my distressing condition, ulcerative colitis, what the nature of it was, or that it could be life-threatening & require emergency surgery. She kept on telling me how faking and illness was a very serious matter and that I could lose my job over it, and I was getting a warning. I was speechless tbh, and the rep just smiled at the “interviewer” and wished her a pleasant afternoon at the end of the process. I later wrote my own letter at how extremely wrong it was to be accused of malingering against all the evidence and that if it was suggested once more that I was feigning illness that I would take legal advice.

Later that person was, for whatever reason, assigned to work in another department in the public service and I never was not addressed again over the matter, particularly as I had to undergo very major surgery which removed the organ responsible for my condition.

In a situation like this, especially when you are wrongly accused of something, it is very easy to be totally taken aback by the approach taken. In these situations companies have already taken the stance that the employee can committed a crime against their employer, and as such it is never going to be a friendly chat.

dotsman · 13-04-2022 6:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918861#Comment_118918861

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922229#Comment_118922229

Spoken like everybody who has been deservedly turfed out on their ass.

Seriously, without knowing anything about the OP or what has led to these circumstances, one has to assume that the company is A) look to resolve issues or B) has already decided you are gone and are now simply going through the motions. If they are looking to resolve and you take the above attitude, then they will definitely switch to option B and, depending on the profession, you may find it very difficult to work or progress in your career again.

OP, the big thing you have to ask is - do you want to stay in this job or are you happy to move on? If you are happy to move on, then do so, and your goal is for a pleasant exit from the org (leaving on a date that suits, with at least some sort of clean reference etc). If you do want to keep this job, you need to figure out how to convince your management line and HR that you know what you have done wrong, it won't happen again (if you need help - you can try ask for it) and convince them to give you another chance. It is as simple as that.

This is the last chance saloon and if you go in there playing games, you've already lost. Do bring someone who is experienced in the role and has a good relationship with both you and your line manager who can help explain to/for you, ensure that things don't get heated, that any demands on (or expectations of) you are realistic, and that you understand the process (they can take relevant notes etc, freeing you up to concentrate on the conversation).

13-04-2022 7:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922385#Comment_118922385

What a moronic comment ..... OP is looking for advice re a disciplinary hearing....but you're shooting off on an 'end game' scenario without knowing any of the facts. What's with the " last chance saloon"??? .... the disciplinary process normally goes like this......verbal warming, written warning, final written warning , dismissal of employee......with each step of the process being subject to " independent " appeal(s). This isn't North Korea.... all employees are legally entitled to due process, fairness & transparency. I retired after 38yrs in the same company.... & YES, management HAD come for me ( & others who spoke up to improve safety) twice in those 38yrs......on both occasions we got a written apology prior to the process being aborted / dismissed. And funnily enough, both those managers that thought they could drive a coach & horses through employees rights didn't last long in the company. Go figure

dotsman · 13-04-2022 7:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922691#Comment_118922691

As I said, they have either already decided to get rid of the OP, in which case, it is better for the OP to leave on good terms, or convince them that they are wrong, or they are attempting to address what they regard as a serious issue, and the OP has a chance to resolve the issue. Going in and acting the gob$hite will only result in the OP leaving on bad terms.

' I don't understand the allegation '

Shows a complete lack of awareness and understanding of their job/responsibilities

" I'm confused as to why we're here"

Similar, but worse.

" I'd like time to consider matters...id ask for an adjournment "

Again, we don't know the OP's issue, but for most issues - what exactly do you need time for? Again, shows a complete lack of awareness of their job/responsibilities and their performance against these.

" I'd like an opportunity to question XY & Z"

Question what exactly? The hearing is the occasion to have the conversation

" ive been here X number of years & never had any disciplinary issues

Obviously, otherwise, you would have already been turfed out.

"i find this process quite intimidating "

Playing the snowflake? This is the real world, for grown-ups.

In the event that those on the other side of the table were considering, or hoping, to keep you on, behaving like above will completely change their mind.

Without any details provided, all we know is that something serious has happened, and the company have taken a formal approach to dealing with it. Acting in any manner other than professionally and wanting to address the concerns and look for a resolution will likely end in disaster.

13-04-2022 7:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922837#Comment_118922837

You sure do know it all, well done, as I said earlier a MORONIC COMMENT. Anyhow, you're use of the term " playing the snowflake" tell me more than enough about your character.....so I WON'T BE ENGAGING FURTHUR....BYE

Disciplinary Hearing

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