The aim seems to be a 4 point move on firearms legislation here.

First meeting: Introduction of issues. Carry out an assessment of all types of firearms which are currently licenced in the State.  Second meeting: Make recommendations based on this assessment on which types of firearms should be licensable in the State and for what purposes.  Third meeting: Make recommendations on which types of firearms should be licensable in the State and for what purposes.  Fourth meeting: Consider whether firearms certificates should be conditioned to specify the locations where the firearm may be used. Consider whether firearms certificates should be conditioned to limit the use of the firearm to the purpose for which the firearms certificate was sought. Consider any further matters raised by the Minister.  Fifth meeting: Consider whether there should be a limit on the number and type of firearms a person may hold. Consider any further matters raised by the Minister.  Sixth meeting: Finalisation of report containing recommendations on these matters. Consider any future areas of examination or further matters raised by the Minister

Looking for a chairman and two other

.Non-government ordinary members Expressions of interest are sought for two non-governmental Ordinary Members of the committee. The Ordinary Members of the Committee will be appointed on a personal basis and not as sectoral representatives of a particular body or group. Those interested in these positions must be able to demonstrate in their application the following essential qualities: • Significant technical and practical knowledge of firearms; • Be an owner or former owner of firearms, and have experience in one or more of the various forms of recreational shooting in Ireland, e.g. target shooting and hunting; and • Possess excellent interpersonal skills and an ability to build and maintain good relationships with other firearms stakeholders. It is desirable but not essential for candidates for the non-governmental ordinary members to have:  Experience of working with stakeholders on firearms-related matters;  Knowledge of the operation of firearms legislation, at both a national and EU level; and  Experience of the application of the firearms legislation from a business or professional perspective, such as that of a Registered Firearms Dealer, range operator, or range safety officer.  Understanding of the national policy context, including the importance of public safety

TBH it looks like the minister is trying to fix something that isn't broke, and is ignoring the total junk pile of what the rest of the firearms legislation is in reality.

Whoever is to be appointed it's probably already a done deal. Will probably be someone who'll promote the Ministers' agenda which will probably not be good for shooters, considering the content of that announcement !

I think the last one had a bit of clout, this one has nothing, to make non binding recommendations which means they cant do anything except prepare a report that no one wants to read.

I think the minister needs to look around, times have changed rapidly in the last couple of months. This is not the time.

No one is on the page of lets take this or alter that, when every western European and a lot of Eastern European countries are scrambling to get firearms.

It's a panel of inquiry to answer the minister's queries. But at least it isn't hauling in the usual suspects of NARGC and whomever else.

It's interesting to see that even the chairman should have knowledge of shooting and preferably be of a legal bent as well. Facing off against a DOJ and a member of AGS.

I see these as two outcomes.[1] The minister takes this report and ignores it, and then goes and does whatever he/she wants and has the excuse of "Well,I did consult with normal gun owners of Ireland and they recommended this." IOW a poisoned chalice.

[2] He /she wants a meaningful discussion on what in reality is more or less, the unbroken part of the licensing system, every one of those points in the agenda is answerable in the positive for our side . And is ignoring the trainwreck of the bulk of the legislation that does need addressing.IE The need for a proof house, license the man, not the gun, Overhaul totally of PULSE, the whoopsie of allowing unlicensed people to use restricted firearms in paintball games, but can't touch a real restricted gun on a range, the incompatibility of gun laws between the two Irelands, etc, etc There is a chance of raising these issues in points 5 and 6 of the agenda.

As the old saying goes;"Not in you can't win!"Any one of us here could do a good job of dealing with those points to be addressed and then some. Or do we want someone from SCOVIor the IFA dealing for us?

Could this be a chance to try and stop CF SA being banned?

You mean the post-2017 stuff? Or the whole lot? Because it could be either going on how the recommendations fall. You can be damn sure it will be points on the AGS/DOJ agenda to try and get rid of them altogether. After all this is what started this whole thing off. The DOJ losing the paperwork of how many import licenses they issued for SA CFs,and demanding the stock numbers off the gun dealers...

Either or, preferably the post 2017 stuff. 2008 proved that banning certain firearms doesn't affect crime levels, but trusting the legislature to listen to facts is wishful thinking. The best we can do is point out the numerous example of blunders from the state and AGS regarding firearms, and hope something sticks.

Well, it looks like a dealer will prob be selected and we all know how the opportunists ran with that last time round..

I think a dealer could easily be swayed by pressure to confirm to the agenda of the PTB or prompt their own agenda related to new training and competency courses or bans on night-time shooting..

How many positions are being sought for this panel?

Far better to have a simple target shooter and a straight hunter in there giving their perspective that best represents the 200k plus firearms that are in private custody. If dealers want representation then let them tender this separate to the “ Licensing-Issues”

A dealer would only tender their own holistic needs.

As a hunter, I see issues with limits on firearm numbers and security standards particularly in regards to air rifles. I also see a need to allow hunters to reload there own ammo If that suits their needs and requiring SA firearms where appropriate

The requirements to get a deer licence each and every year is also slightly bonkers. But prob more in the NPWSs area than anywhere else.

Also, that stark reality of Eastern Europe shows the importance/benefit of having a strong gun culture. Am I wrong, or has our current firearm frame work of laws been sculpted based on our past historical birthing pains as a young state?

THE RISK HAS NOW CHANGED TO AN EXTERNAL FORCE!

Air rifle deregulation or degree of decoupling from full legislation would also help to foster the sport built around air rifles and create a lot of seasoned shooters that could easily conceptualise the workings of a larger platform if the need ever arose!

Well, it looks like a dealer will prob be selected and we all know how the opportunists ran with that last time round..

I think a dealer could easily be swayed by pressure to confirm to the agenda of the PTB or prompt their own agenda related to new training and competency courses or bans on night-time shooting..

How many positions are being sought for this panel?

As stated previously. TWO positions from the shooting community.

Why would a dealer be persuaded to cut their own throat? The majority of these guns cant be sold onto anyone else here if banned. You won't be able to sell them for the inflated and delusional profit on the 2nd hand market on the continent, or to the UK for that matter. So how do you profit as a dealer sitting with unsellable stock?

Unless you are using your dealership license to become a collector?

In fact, a dealer could be in a position to point out the legislation is killing the trade here with things like;

Slowness/refusals of local AGS to grant licenses to people who have paid deposits on firearms and cant collect.

Archaic book work to record transactions and sales of guns and ammo. Being limited on what can be sold compared to other EU /UK countries or even displayed in the shop. Arbitrary increases in security without proper consultation of the dealership. ETC.

As for new training and competency courses...Playing Devils Advocate for a minute. IF it got us a more liberal possession and opened the door to things closed here for years and licensed the man,not the gun. Would that be worth considering on our part? They get nothing if we get nothing.

In the end, it is an advisory group. The minister can take it the advice given or ignore it totally,or cherry-pick whatever will not piss off the voters who shoot too badly, and make them look good in their political career.

As for us arguing a Ukraine situation with this lot.🤣 This shower would be kissing the boots of the first dirty trooper of any flag to hit our beaches and selling out each other for a position in the new puppet govt.🤣

lots that need to be raised, licencing system with those involved, personalitys involved the lack of a stanfard being applied across the country, , licence the man not the firearm, reloading at home, the stupid illegality of being unable to zero/target shoot outside a range. The proposed S/A ban ..the list is endless

There’s only going to be a panel of five including AGS and DOJ so there is not much in the way of a broad spectrum of firearms culture being accepted..

5 ffs

RE compromising. That very much depends on who's on the panel. If we have some degenerate fudd who only has an air rifle and a single shot shotgun, then we will likely lose CF SA and pistols for nothing meaningful in return. So vetting whoever is on the panel and make sure they know what our aims are is essential.

From the reading of the document,I doubt that will be a candidate if the minister is serious about this. Seems they want people who have been thru the mill and are diverse...I mean otherwise why not just haul in the usual suspects, and watch them throw their teddies out of their prams at the meetings or on Zoom?

What I think is the best approach to this is throwing so much evidence at the minister that he will look like a complete prat if he goes against it. ie if he supports the continuation of the pistol ban, bring up so many examples of murders, robberies that have occurred with illegal firearms and how the ban had zero impact on crime levels.

Not hard to do,but the problem is do people in power listen to their mistakes and those of their predecessors and try and correct them,or continue down the path of further ruination?

But the most important thing out of all this is that we have a concrete set of aims we would like to see implemented, and what we're willing to concede in return. There's no point in each shooter having a different opinion of what should and shouldn't be allowed, we need to united behind a common proposition, and then tell our representatives on the panel, and our representatives in government of our wishes. I'll list off some points that I would like to see implemented.

Again, will whoever have this chance to bring these points up, until it seems almost the last meeting? It looks like they want an answer to six points and nothing else! Those six points are in reality screwing around with what is more or less, NOT broken in the legislation, and ignoring the trainwreck of everything else that is of concern.

We all know what we want and what needs fixing,and its a Hell of a lot longer than those 6 points of the agenda.So how do we entice the minister to open that particular can of worms out of Pandora's box?

Perhaps I was exaggerating too much, but you get my point. The members of the panel should be vetted by us to ensure that they know our wishes and voice them.

We are only a small segment of Irish gun owners here on Boards.Appx 2/3rd of gun owners in Ireland don't know, don't want to know, or hate our guts, and wouldn't ever post here in a fit, as they believe the PTB are hanging on our every word and post. So what's this "we "bit Kemosabe?

Another thing that could work in our favour would be delaying this entirely for as long as possible. With the government going through a planned reshuffle in December, the new minister for justice may be more sympathetic. If all comes to all, delaying the inevitable will allow us to keep CF SA for a little while longer.

Don't think there has ever been one sympathetic Justice minister to us since I was born 56 years ago. But if such a unicorn might come along in the next 6 months...That would be a favourable outcome that this report is buried under the "To do " tray on the minister's desk.Because some of this would require changing primary legislation,and is it worth costly ministerial time while in office?Unless Min Browne knows he is tipped for this position already and has an anti-gun bias already inbuilt?

A few of the points I listed would be mentioned, the ones about legalizing CF pistols and removing the impending CF SA ban, specifically would be mentioned.

That would be a given by anyone who has met their prerequisites of application.

What I think our best chance of coming out of this whole debacle with better laws would be if we get certain types of firearms unbanned, then we try and get a new firearms act. Logically it would be harder for the legislature to unban and then ban something.

That is the million dollar question. I don't think a complete overhaul of our legislation would benefit us now, but I think we should instead focus on removing bans. We should bring up how these bans restrict Irish athletes from competing on a world stage effectively and virtually stop us from competing in IPSC.

IF they are looking at a root&branch overhaul of the gun laws. It won't happen overnight. This is seemingly an advisory body on points of concern raised by the minister and looks more like tinkering [for political gain?]rather than addressing critical points in the wreck of the legislation.