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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Former Former Former




  • Subscribers Posts: 41,645 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Yes, Leinster have a long history of refusing to promote young players......



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Yeah, the likes of Ryan playing for Ireland before Leinster spring to mind.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,645 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Yep, and brian o driscoll!!!

    The stat pool for this is so huge im surprised leinster fans haven't been tearing down the walls in anger



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,172 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Ed Byrne has been in good form for Leinster recently. He made a big difference in the scrum against Connacht at in the league fixture a few weeks ago.

    As for Joe McCarthy, he has just five professional appearances and turned 21 only two weeks ago. He's been impressive in most outings, but let's not rush him either. I don't think he's fully ready for this level of fixture yet.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    While I think Deegan has been back on his upward trajectory I feel we really could have done with Ruddock last week so I am glad to see him back in.

    Porter and Kelleher back is huge



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Analysts in Connacht for a game of this importance would spend a week identifying some of the obvious gaps in the likes of Joe McCarthy's game and they'd be exploited early and often.

    Playing URC is one thing but for European rugby teams prep to a far greater level of detail and target weak links, in particular - inexperience.

    He's getting loads of game time and coming along fine. There is no rush and he's in probably the best talent development club in the world, I think they know what they're doing.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    That certainly seems to be the thought process at Leinster. They only picked Ryan for his first European appearance when Fardy - a player who had played nearly all his international rugby in the backrow - pulled out late. If I recall correctly Fardy and Toner were named to start that match against Montpellier initially, with Molony on the bench.

    Perhaps a similar scenario here? Toner's involvement internationally is long finished, while McCarthy was called up to train with Ireland recently.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Porter starting this week will make a big difference.

    Leinster by 22.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    No LARMOUR



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭TRC10


    What would those obvious gaps be?

    Toner has some pretty glaring gaps in his game too.

    People are saying he isn't ready, but he played against Ulster (a better team than Connacht) in Ravenhill and did very well. And for me Ulster in Belfast is a much tougher fixture than Connacht in the Aviva. Especially when you consider he'd be playing with the Irish first choice pack this time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Not sure I'd even start Larmour if you were naming a XXIII out of the players in reserve: 9. Nick McCarthy, 10. Harry Byrne, 11. Rory O'Loughlin, 12. Conor O'Brien, 13. Jamie Osborne, 14. Tommy O'Brien, 15. Max O'Reilly; 21. Cormac Foley, 22. David Hawkshaw, 23. Jordan Larmour

    Maybe he'd get in ahead of O'Loughlin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    For one thing there's hardly any footage for opposition coaches to analyse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    McCarthy is carrying a knock.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭TRC10




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    All players have gaps in their games. The longer a player spends in a pro environment the more they mitigate those gaps.

    McCarthy has very little play time at a pro level and there are two issues this presents. Firstly - there is no doubt plenty of tape from his first five caps will show instances where he repeatedly misjudges his role in defence, at a ruck or in some other aspect of play. It's impossible for this not to be the case. Leinster will be onto him about these but it takes time to bed in the detail that goes into a highly structured defensive system.

    Secondly - those around him have played Connacht plenty of times, know the weaknesses that each individual player is prone to and how to exploit them. Toner could probably tell you about the predominant habits of most of the Connacht pack when it comes to the breakdown having played them so many times and done the prep each and every time. That is a massive amount of information to have on the pitch and to have available in the build up.

    People take a black and white view of talent and experience. Some talents vault the need for it, but most players need game time to hone the minor issues with their game and become more familiar with their regular opposition.

    Andy Friend did a good interview on off the ball during the week where he spoke about knowing the detail. He highlighted that Leinster were exceptional around this aspect of the game, reviewing opposition microscopically and having insight into their decision making. He talked about making that a part of the culture in Connacht. This is why the likes of McCarthy aren't always dropped into these games, not because they aren't capable (I'm sure he'd play fine at the weekend) but because they'd potentially be targeted and exposed by a smart opposition and because there are a bunch of players around them who are far more familiar with that opposition and have prepped to play them many times before.

    And McCarthy will have weaknesses to his game he nor Leinster even know about yet. Such is the nature of sport and life in general - he's already being fast tracked, he will get plenty more minutes this season and should feature a good deal in South Africa. He's in a great system, a system that won't let him down but which decided not to play him this weekend. It's not a big deal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,106 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Good post and will just mention if you listen to someone like BOD or Lancaster analyse the game in detail, it's next level and they just see things us plebs don't and never would. Sure, McCarthy starting the game would be great but there's no rush and his time will come. In the meantime both Moloney and Murphy have been going really well this season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    I think Bealham will have plenty of experience against him with Ireland camp at scrum time. If he was coming on as sub against Augier he may have a bigger impact. Both teams have stronger LH and hookers this week.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Its in the loose that porter shows his worth. He is brilliant around the field.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Larmour is one of the most talented players in Ireland yet alone leinster. Yes he has struggled after a huge impact in 2018 but a combination of switching positions and injury hasn't helped. It looks like they have decided he is a winger and if he gets game time I expect him to be in the first team and pushing for Ireland starting spot....



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,396 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    Seemingly about 33k tickets sold for tonight.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    That would mean it was a worthwhile decision to move it.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    He’s definitely fallen down the pecking order in Farrell’s thinking, and it’s a position we’re pretty stacked in. Arguably 5th choice wing, at best?



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    With everyone fit, Lowe, Conway, Hanson, Stockdale, Baloucoune are all ahead of him and Earls may still have something to say while JOB is in a dogfight with Larmour at both club and country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    No idea what Farrell is thinking.

    He is certainly looking for players who can come in off the wing and become a play makers etc which is something Larmour can do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,106 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    He has fallen down the order but he's also been excellent for Leinster this season so I would have no doubt he can work his way back in.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    The best indication we have of what Farrell is thinking is his selections. And in that regard, he seems to be down the pecking order at present. I think pickarooney’s summary of those ahead of him is pretty spot on tbh.

    And play making doesn’t strike me as one of his strengths; if anything, one of the criticisms against him is that he takes too much out of things, tries to run everything and doesn’t pass.

    I think he’d be a good fit for the 23 jersey tho.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Larmour should probably consider a move to Ulster. Gilroy hasnt looked international standard in a while and he could challenge him for a starting spot in white



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