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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    The problem with planning is some people do actually have a valid case but they are lost in the middle of all the invalid cases.

    The biggest issue at the moment is political parties rejected every housing project they can because it is not in their interest to have the housing problem resolved, it would be better for them if it got 100 times worse.

    They need to find a balance to stop the invalid rejections while still supporting people with valid rejections. I haven't read the proposal to see if this will meet the needs but if it doesn't then the Greens are right to reject it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    What a way to twist what I said. But I expected nothing better from you.

    If it wasn't for the policies you advocate for people wouldn't be turning to the likes of Alone and St Vincent de Paul for supports when they are left with no option but to either eat or heat.

    That is on the green movement because they have advocated for immediate carbon tax increases while telling folks their expensive home upgrades will have to wait two to three years to get assessed let alone any remedial works done.

    All stick. Beating the people and hitting the poorest the hardest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Noticing over the past few weeks the amount of cars with trailers full to the gills of firewood on the move. It's certainly a strange sight at this time of year.

    People know whats coming and are preparing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin



    Yes, that's the big issue here, proposed Green party policies will effectively create an energy trap, leaving some with no affordable heating solution this winter.

    Its ironic that "Green Party" is even anagram of "Energy Trap".



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So last night on PT Marie Donnelly (chairperson of climate change advisory group) said we need our own source of energy and not to be dependent on imported energy.

    She also acknowledged there would be a transition period to get to 100% renewable energy.

    So that now the CRU, the climate change advisory group and anyone with a bit of common sense who has warned that we need our own energy supplies.

    This at the same time that our minister for energy sits on his hands with the barryroe development and won’t allow further exploration of Irish waters to find gas that the CRU and climate change action group and the GP itself acknowledge we need until at least 2030 (more than likely 2050).

    The only logical thing this can lead to is our complete dependence on a foreign country to keep the lights on post 2025, which the CRU and climate change advisory group is pointing out.

    Surely our energy minister can’t ignore this anymore?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Also if the government were actually serious about climate change surely they would get the public service (the ones that they can- administration) to WFH?

    for example the birth/death registration office. During covid this was an online service with the employees WFH. Now the employees are all back to work and the public have to attend in person.

    If this was mandated as a WFH sector it would take plenty of car journeys off the road and free up space on PT.

    Just one example but there’s loads.

    This is low hanging fruit from a climate change point of view, but if the government done this, they’d have ISME giving out saying your reducing economic activity in the city centres and the government would see a lower tax take.

    So this leads me to believe most of the climate measures coming in are to generate tax as opposed to saving the environment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    "The biggest issue at the moment is political parties rejected every housing project they can because it is not in their interest to have the housing problem resolved, it would be better for them if it got 100 times worse."

    Do you have a source for that particular allegation?

    The article I linked details quite a different problem to what you're claiming, relating to the fact that objections and judicial reviews by various interest groups "were “too frequent” and “holding up” many housing and infrastructure projects, referring to an “industry” built around legal objections to planning decisions."

    Or are you suggesting that something labelled as a "green" objection is somehow automatically "valid" and everything else is invalid? Don't think it works like that tbh.

    But yes the proposed changes do indeed seek to put an end to the "industry” built around legal objections to planning decisions by reducing "the stages at which a court review can be sought, place limits on the types of entities that can take legal challenges, and introduce new cost-capping arrangement"

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/obrien-backs-fine-gael-plans-to-overhaul-planning-process-as-greens-oppose-it-41306838.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    The greens are like the catholic church.

    They'll do anything for people who aren't born yet, yet people who are alive now they couldn't give a toss.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Strange how every post on here you manage to comprehend it incorrectly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Well no. I'm simply going by your own comment.

    First you made an allegation that

    "The biggest issue at the moment is political parties rejected every housing project they can "

    I have asked you for a source to backup those allegations.

    And secondly you stated

    "They need to find a balance to stop the invalid rejections while still supporting people with valid rejections. I haven't read the proposal to see if this will meet the needs but if it doesn't then the Greens are right to reject it."

    And based on that, I asked you the following

    "are you suggesting that something labelled as a "green" objection is somehow automatically "valid" and everything else is invalid? 

    And bizarrely you don't provide an answer to either of those requests for clarification, but rather come out with another generality (which you've thrown around a lot at posters here btw)

    "Strange how every post on here you manage to comprehend it incorrectly"

    The solution to clarifying the comments you made lie in your hands. Only you can do that. Trying to suggest that others are at fault is puerile.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Just a few posts back you were accusing me and others of saying that "helping Alone is a sickening thing".

    More double standards from the green movement advocates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    On the subject of low hanging fruit it always amazes me that more is not made of small/medium scale hydro electric in Ireland. Of all the renewable sources of energy water is something we have in abundance, and if the GP put the same effort into promoting hydro as they have in banning peat we would probably all be in a better position.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I’m no expert in hydro here, but some of the other posters will tell you we pretty much have hydro maxed out with what we have now in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    The keyboard warrior act on every post in this thread is confusing. Not sure what the "green movement" has done on you but I have no interest in it



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Small scale hydro is very rare that house holds will have access. I have seen a few people online discussing the topic. Small scale wind turbines are similar , as you need a decent area for wind plus the cost of repair can be expensive.

    Hence why all parties will concentrate on solar pv/thermal which can be installed in majority of houses in Ireland and will provide a source of electricity/water.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Affs - you're not back to name calling and accusing all and sundry as being a "Keyboard warrior act"?

    How many times have you flung that particular piece of dung now?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    At a conference in Spain, the wind industry presents evidence that low wind prices are unsustainable and that taxpayers and electricity consumers need to step in and do more for them. What about all the "green jobs" the politicians promised for years now? The more random energy generators added to the grid, the more expensive electricity becomes. As a consequence the manufacturers of weather dependent generators can’t afford to build said generators in the EU, so the manufacturing moves to China where the energy comes from coal and it's cheap. It is the same reason solar cell production in the EU fell over 10 years ago because China could make the polysilicon raw materials and solar cells less expensively. Now is starting to hit the wind industry. Will politicians across Europe realise in time their green energy strategy is a de-industrialisation policy and by extension a demilitarisation one as well.

    'We're all in trouble' | Wind turbine makers selling at a loss and in a 'self-destructive loop', bosses admit

    The European Commission’s recent REPowerEU plan, formulated in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, wants wind power capacity to soar from 190GW today to 480GW by 2030.


    Destructive loop

    Nordex chief executive José Luis Blanco stressed that even before the Ukraine war, the economics in the wind industry had been destroyed due to price pressures from competitive tenders coupled with a low visibility of wind capacity pipelines due to failed government policies.

    “We are still selling at loss, because of the dynamic of auctions, the low predictability of volumes,” Blanco told the conference.

    “We are investing in volumes in trust in market dynamics, then the volume doesn’t come, then a factory is empty, [and then] it is better [to have] some cash flow than no cash flow — and [consequently] the sector enters into a self-destructive loop.”

    Blanco also said if Europe wants to triple its wind power capacity, it needs to better support the independence of the supply chain.

    Currently, some 85% of the industry’s components are, however, coming from China, he said.

    “The energy independence is supported by a supply-chain dependency policy. This a huge risk.”

    Blanco was not only referring to rare earths, but said “normal things” such as metallic shafts in turbines, 95% of which are sourced in China.


    When there is no wind how much of that 480GW works?, Authorities cannot expand those on the grid without having a backup supply therefore excess turbines can only be used for off grid applications that require electricity and can operate when the wind does, like their original purpose.

    What's in the REPowerEU plan?

    Just like magic they click their fingers and all this happens in 8 years. Se Action plan for implementing REPowerEU.


    Atmospheric implications of increased hydrogen use. The risk posed by hydrogen in the stratosphere is the ozone layer is slow forming. Hydrogen reacts in a fast photochemical reaction with ozone even at low temperature, this removes the ozone layer and produces nano-particles of ice that will remain in the stratosphere. It's nothing to worry about . . .

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    I think what is being referred to is small scale hydro. If I remember correctly there was a study done a number of years ago which mapped all the historical water mills in the country and which showed that there were literally hundreds of thousand of sites which had previously supported small water mills for various domestic and industrial purposes. Most would only have required a small head of water to produce the necessary power for milling etc. Adapting that potential would be key to generating electricity by the same means.

    I agree with the previous poster that the greens would indeed be better devoting their energies into potential solutions like this rather than setting themselves up as the turf police or similar as they currently attempting to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The data in the report was based on a paper using data that's at least 15 years old. Since then Ireland has offered retrofits and warmer home schemes and insulation to people on low incomes. The BER ratings didn't even exist in 2007 when that study was done

    All newer houses are much warmer than the houses built before 2007, and of the older houses, many of them have been upgraded to require less heating by having better insulation and more efficient heating systems

    Any elderly person living in an old damp house has options available to them to make that house warmer without having to burn thousands of euros worth of fuel a year to heat the air outside their house



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its April now, people have 6 months to prepare for next winter. It takes 1 day to insulate your attic, and there are grants available to pay for most or all of the cost.

    Landlords are the problem though, they often won't do the works required for their tenants to live in warm homes. Rather than dumping more money to subsidise oil and gas, the government should issue emergency legislation to force landlords to bring their properties up to BER C or higher and if they don't they need to subsidise the tenants heating costs this winter.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Yeah, thats why the greens are begging people to get their homes insulated and putting in schemes to help people to pay for warmer and more comfortable homes for the long term

    Its the opposite. The fossil fuel companies want to see people living in shoddy cold damp houses that costs them half their disposable income to heat in the winter. Why do you love the fossil fuel companies so much?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    They have something in the pipeline but of course people are complaining about that because it will drive up rent.

    It would be interesting to see how many rental properties in Ireland are actually below BER C rating? i would expect it is not a huge amount.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Selective quotes and misrepresenting people, about as much as can be expected from someone who doesn't believe that CO2 is driving climate change



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    That’s quite interesting, I wonder how much could be generated.

    Surely our minister for energy has looked into that.

    Ya know looking for alternatives as opposed to banning what’s currently available.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    So you reckon that in reply to one post you get to tar and feather everyone who you disagree with this type of constantly repeated rubbish ?

    "The keyboard warrior act on every post in this thread is confusing."

    That you double down on that repeated name calling as called out - and go on yet another name calling round of abuse is quite hillarious and don't see the irony

    "Similar to yourself a "hard" person from behind a computer screen."

    I'll leave you at it lol.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Are you including accidental landlords in that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The climate impact of free hydrogen in the atmosphere is less than 1% of the amount of CO2 offset by using Hydrogen instead of Fossil Fuels.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    A report was done in 1985 in regards to small scale Hydro. So 37 years ago, but says still valid

    Also the information here.

    If you click on the link it gives you potential year generation. I haven't click on all but some says 8kWh per year which is a saving of 1-2 euro per year. Some of the bigger ones are 200+kWh per year.

    Last year my solar generated 4161kWh

    Now maybe I am reading the website wrong but that's how it reads to me.

    https://www.seai.ie/technologies/seai-maps/hydro-power-map/


    Edit: to be fair I think I am reading it wrong but not sure what the link is supposed to mean. Is it 8kWh per day?

    Post edited by brokenangel on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    The poster is talking about me, I do believe in CO2 driving climate change. :-)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Yeah there's some interesting research out there regarding potential for hydropower but I'm fairly sure we'll have someone along shortly to tell us otherwise lol.

    This is a fairly recent report from Teagasc giving a good background on small scale hydro setups

    Hydroelectricity is derived from the powerharnessed from the flow of falling water,typically from fast-flowing streams and rivers.

    There is no international agreement on the definition of small hydropower. In Ireland,“small” refers to an upper limit capacity of 10megawatts (MW). Small-scale schemes (under10MW) are usually operated by private developers and small companies

    Small-scale hydro is a useful way of providing power to houses, workshops or villages that need an independent supply. Considerable unexploited hydropower potential exists in Ireland at the small tomicro-scale level. 

    By investing in a small hydropower system, it is possible to reduce exposure to future fuel shortages and price increases, and help reduce air pollution. Improvements in small turbines and generator technology mean that “micro” technology (under 100kilowatts (kW)) hydro schemes are anattractive means of producing electricity."

    Shame our greens keep just banging away at the same old drum without looking to the potential energy from developments like these

    https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/rural-economy/rural-development/diversification/Energy-10-Small-Scale-Hydro-Generation.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjeqZ2-7ZX3AhWElFwKHb9oDOgQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1f8TJ6cfEydGMEs1KgTiAt



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