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General British politics discussion thread

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    #4562
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,727 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929684#Comment_118929684

    Because they are dodgy enough to agree to it.



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    #4563
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928972#Comment_118928972
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929540#Comment_118929540


    Rwanda gets paid by the UK for every refugee that they take in. I saw on the news last night that Rwanda entered into a similar agreement with Israel a few years ago. Rwanda is a developing country with a massive population for it's size (it's around the size of Munster with a population of 13 million). They have no interest in holding onto these people for the long term and they will have no interest in staying there.

    What happened the last time is they trousered the Israeli cash and then let them leave the country. So basically from the refugee's point of view it's similar to hitting a giant snake in the game snakes & ladders. They likely won't need to stay in the country but it's a huge impediment to them if their ultimate goal is to get to the UK.

    The entire thing won't work in the long run and is just a cynical piece of red meat for the Daily Express readership (much like all of Priti Patel's plans)



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    #4564
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,727 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930633#Comment_118930633

    So essentially Joe the refugee goes to the UK gets sent to Rwanda who get paid. It's now in Rwanda's interest to create refugees so they let Joe the refugee go who ends up going to the UK and then getting sent to Rwanda who then let him go ........

    This isn't beating smugglers it is just creating legally legitimate ones.



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    #4565
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930876#Comment_118930876

    And if Joe makes it back to the UK, you can be sure he'll be better about avoiding capture and enter the 'grey world,' to be victimized left and right by the UK society. Great plan, uhuh.



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    #4566
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think the idea that this Rwanda lark is a plan is a bit of a stretch too far. It is a quick bit of vote getting for the Tory to claim its wonderous solution to an intractable Brexit problem.

    [Oooops - I should not have mentioned the Bxxxx word - it has been banned from the UK politics since the election - until now!]



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    #4567
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930876#Comment_118930876

    One part of this that might be missing is that these refugees presumably will have no money left to make the second trip to Blighty



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    #4568
    Cal4567
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    Lots of smug Irish comments which is the usual standard stuff, from those trying to show off their liberal credentials.

    You'd be having a markedly different view if you lived in areas of the UK that have changed beyond recognition due to large scale immigration. It has to be controlled. If it is not controlled it makes life even worse for the indigenous population. If you've only lived in Ireland, you have very little idea of how the landscape of mainland Europe and the UK has transformed over the last 40 years. There is very little support in the UK to take on anymore boat people as there would be here if it was happening to us.

    Typical responses. Oh, the UK hasn't taken in that many? Some of you should take a journey around parts of London and other towns across the UK but I guess it's easy just to bash the Brits.

    Oh, and that 6% Labour lead would evaporate if Labour didn't do anything about this either.

    For balance, the UK should have put in a controlled immigration system decades ago. That it didn't, has proved to be a mistake. The population has been asking for direct action for years now. What else should the government do?



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    #4569
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931393#Comment_118931393


    Ireland has a higher % of people who were born elsewhere than the UK.



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    #4570
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,304 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931393#Comment_118931393

    Oh I don't know; how about actually implement a policy that makes a difference? How's that for a starter? You know the same way they could have done 40 years ago in regards to non EU immigration and could not be bothered; or actually enforce the EU rules for EU immigrants but could not be arsed to actually do something. You sound very much like a Trump voter screaming about "build the wall" when the simple fact is majority of immigrants simply fly in on a tourist visa instead. You want something to be done? Then vote in a government that's not as useless as the current Tory one then (esp. one who promised more immigration as the fix to Brexit)...



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    #4571
    Cal4567
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    No. Not a Trump voter.

    The UK population have been let down by successive governments on immigration. This is an effort to bring in control as much indirectly if it curtails the channel crossings. Time will tell.



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    #4572
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,627 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The UK has a controlled immigration system. They let in a relatively small number of refugees, the vastly changed landscape you so despise is from controlled immigration that has been allowed.



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    #4573
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,304 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931846#Comment_118931846

    No, I said you sound like one. You flag wave about something that has a total immigration of less than 10k people a year vs. the 400k - 800k+ that come in via flights etc. It's the very definition of pissing away a lot of money in wasted effort for feel good headlines only with zero effect yet you're in support of it. Which is exactly why it's being done and exactly why there will be zero actual progress; if you want change then hold your politicians accountable (i.e. you tell them what you expect and vote them out rather than keep voting for the same and hope this time will be different) to actually deliver more than feel good headlines at great expense to the UK. If those 130 millions (and that's only the initial bill) along with the 114 million spent in France went to actually root out illegal immigrants and the people exploiting them you'd see a way bigger improvement. But that does not give the same sexy headlines and would inconvenience Tory donors etc. so you get pissing in the wind instead and claim it's a start. It's not; it's a wasted effort with wasted money that you will pay in taxes that will do sod all in practice beyond raising your tax bill; big thumbs up for you apparently.



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    #4574
    Cal4567
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    Yep. Big thumbs up for me then. A poor attempt to take the moral high ground but fire away.

    Let's see what UK voters think. I'm sure we'll start seeing polls soon on this issue.

    As I said the UK population has been let down by its governments repeatedly. It should have had a proper controlled system. It never really has been. I think the UK will move towards something similar to the current Australian system for entry.

    We'll only know how successful this Rwanden policy is in time.



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    #4575
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,304 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932201#Comment_118932201

    The polls are already out and contained no surprises...

    The YouGov survey, conducted within hours of the prime minister’s confirmation of the £120m scheme, found that 42 per cent of those questioned oppose it against just 35 per cent who were supportive.

    But the plan was much more popular among Conservative voters, with 39 per cent giving it “strong” backing and 20 per cent saying that they “tend to support” it, for a total of 59 per cent, against just 22 per cent who were opposed.

    The findings suggest that the policy has more chance of helping to shore up Mr Johnson’s position among existing supporters than to attract voters from other parties.

    Fiercest opposition was recorded in Scotland (57 per cent) and London (54 per cent).

    But I'm only a simply a smug Irish liberal after all so what would I know about the world or how excellent the government is doing it's job; it's not like I'm involved in or up to speed on topics such as transport in and out of UK / Europe / the world, policies on immigration, staffing and resourcing, investment decisions etc. After all this time it will be different because Boris said so and we all know we can trust Bories and his cronies chosen for personal loyalty over competence...



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    #4576
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    If they want to control illegal immigration, they need to introduce an ID card that must be carried at all time, but at least for production when conducting official Gov business or banking/financial business. Currently, they rely on landlords and employers to police the whole system which is an appalling derogation of Gov business to an uncontrolled section of society.

    Most EU countries manage this ID requirement seamlessly, and have a more efficient public administration as a result.

    I cannot see the Rwanda frolic as anything but a headline grab ahead of the upcoming local elections.



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    #4577
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,320 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    To use the parlance of the US, it's red meat for the base, simple as. It's not meant to be a top-to-bottom overhaul or rethink of the system: that's expensive, takes time and expertise the UK cabinet has struggled to show. Easier to throw cash at a shallow, headline grabbing "solution" that plays to anyone even thinking the Tories might be going soft - while taking eyes away from CoVid issues, or the ongoing slide into heating, food poverty.



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    #4578
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    .

    Post edited by Brussels Sprout on


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    #4579
    dublin49
    Registered Users Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭dublin49


    Cant believe they went ahead with Rwanda solution but typical of Johnston's modes operandi,all in on every issue .Labour would never ever consider such a measure and hence the tory electoral success rate.Immigration is a massive issue for UK electorate and I reckon this measure will garner support for the Tories rather than cost it .The Tories really don't care about ethics so labour are always handicapped as they do.



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    #4580
    Cal4567
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    That is not me. What kind of witch hunt is this?

    My god, some of you lot really are scraping the barrel. I'm not a Twitter user either.

    I'm just stunned to be honest. This is just goading to silence opposition.

    Right. How do I report people on here because I'm doing that with you.

    If you had a level of common decency you'd have the good grace to apologise for that.

    I can only hope when the moderator looks at this, I can have some support.

    Words literally fail me. I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself.



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    #4581
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,727 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933561#Comment_118933561

    This won't move the needle much. All it will do is keep a few Tory voters on board.



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    #4582
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,320 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    "immigration is a massive issue". It is and it isn't though. Its massive for those convinced foreign hordes are running rampant I guess, and older demographics but right now the economy and the ability to feed and heat oneself is taking priority.

    18-24 years aren't interested in immigration; they want jobs, heating and their environment not collapsing. Chucking asylum seekers into Rwanda isn't going to impress them.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/the-most-important-issues-facing-the-country




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    #4583
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,727 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933971#Comment_118933971

    Immigration in the UK mostly seems to be an issue in parts of the country that have few immigrants and are very unlikely to ever have them. Little insulated Home Counties towns where they all sit around swapping barstool stories about how Bermondsey is under Sharia law despite non of them ever being to the place.



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    #4584
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,320 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933999#Comment_118933999

    Every now and again there's somebody phoning into LBC, or a token talking head invited onto Fox News in the US, to talk about the supposed "no go" areas of Birmingham or whatnot, Mad Max adjacent suburbs where Sharia rules. White women watch out, you'll be savaged on the streets. It's patently absurd but these are (very likely) the Tory base being placated ATM and this is the audience clapping their hands about the darkies and muzzies being turfed into Rwanda.

    The actual young and low income demographics clearly don't care about Rwandan show pony policies. The stats show this. They want to stop having to put on extra layers to keep warm in the house, not worry about zero hour contracts as a "career", or the environment collapsing. "Immigration" doesn't count (and even then the poll doesn't say if they simply believe it should be more compassionate, more restrictive, etc)

    Now, the FPTP system and the historic inability for the young to get out and vote doesn't encourage a belief that these red meat fallacies will be punished but that's a other matter.



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    #4585
    Cal4567
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    I'll leave this message here but how do I contact the moderator for this thread directly. It's concerning the comments made by Brussels Sprout last night, #4595 above. They have no basis whatsoever apart from assuming my username is very slightly similar to someone else he has located on twitter.

    Thanks



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    #4586
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,332 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934035#Comment_118934035

    Dara O'Briain demolishes this media dog-whistling

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1430913551955267586




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    #4587
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    From the UK Indo

    Cabinet ministers refuse to publicly declare offshore interests and non-dom status


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cabinet-ministers-offshore-interest-tax-b2058176.html

    It appears that a lot of the UK cabinet want to avoid admitting that they are availing of many tax avoidance and evasion schemes and other dodgy arrangements. I wonder how many are at it.

    It would appear the Tories are up to their neck in financial stuff they do not want the general population to know anything about because - well, we know why.



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    #4588
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,810 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933561#Comment_118933561

    No one forces Labour to adopt a libertarian position on this.



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    #4589
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,727 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934226#Comment_118934226

    "Libertarian" maybe I misunderstood that term but I don't see how it's relevant.

    No party is forced to adopt any policy it's just some have morals.



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    #4590
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,810 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934247#Comment_118934247

    You are just calling an extreme free market position "morals".


    I view the labour position on migration as deeply immoral, a sop to big business, an profound attack on the working class and selfish economic interests dressed up as altruism for their own egotistical satisfaction.



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    #4591
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,727 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118934262#Comment_118934262

    Im calling not shipping refugees off to Rwanda "morals"



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