Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Look at this **** Ukrainian pows taken to a cemetery and made kneel In front of a memorial , while being filmed by Russian media

If they weren't defined as KIA they're not subject to a higher grade of compensation either.

Numbers of survivors are believed to be very low. One estimate is that 50 sailors survived but another suggests it could be as low as 10 or 12 men rescued.

This is definitely a PR disaster for the regime and one they haven't been able to keep secret from the Russian public.

This is no defence of the German government, however people on our wee island should consider the effects to the European economy if the Germans were to stop taking Russian gas tomorrow. As per German (also European) law, it would mean the first to go off the grid would be industrial consumers. This would mean major disruption for the following companies (off the top of my head), with the knock on effects going much further:

BASF - biggest single private gas consumer in Germany - No Russian gas and production stops in their biggest facility in Germany - effects on the food, pharma, car, weapons .... industries to name a few.

Evonik - same as above

Bayer - major player in the pharma and agri industry

VW, Audi, Ford, Toyota ... all would have delivery issues due to additives and plastics produced by the above companies

TyssenKrupp Steel

Georgsmarienhütte

Take the last two above from the gas grid and the weapons industry would most certainly suffer. Take away BASF, Bayer and Evonik, the chemical and pharma industries would be struggling to produce, this would trickle down very quickly to everyday things worldwide. These are the fine things the German government are trying to balance, being very German about it, no knee jerk reactions. In the background, contracts are being sealed for LNG, Rotterdam and Southern Spain LNG terminals being used to test / balance the pressure in the European grid. Instead of gas being pumped from North to South, it is now being balanced from all directions.

As much as we all love having a pop at the likes of Schulz, people should think outside the box. Yes the Germans did put themselves in the situation of dependancy on Russian fossil fuels, at the same time they neglected their own military, they have a pension system that is very close to breaking point, their brilliant medical system is suffering due to bad pay and a lack of staff. Add all together and maybe you will be able to understand why they are very careful. Inflation in Germany last month was approx. 7%, the highest it has been for over 20 years.

In what meaningful sense is a country that has been invaded multiple times still 'neutral' when it is in a state of war with the aggressor nation?

Ukraine signed a treaty with Russia giving up its nuclear weapons in which Russia agreed to respect its territorial integrity and sovereignty?

How many has Russia violated that treaty?

Leaving those points out is a deliberate and willful misrepresentation. You can use facts woven a manner which is not 100% truthful.

This is blatantly what you are doing which is multiple posters are calling you out on it.

Not only that, but promised higher pay scales and bonuses' are not being paid either. Also, Family's who sent money to their sons serving in Ukraine are receiving only empty envelopes.

There is no freedom of speech on privately owned forums, there is a need for discussion, posting about Ukraine being neutral or not with literally no other comments is looking for a reaction from others with absolutely nothing to discuss. It would be as relevant as me winding you up about londongrad and the tories being bosom buddies with the russians and now using Ukraine to deflect attention from their own complete and incompetent failings.

Indeed, there has been a huge change of tone in the last 24 hours. Lots of threats to the US and NATO in general and talk of full scale "war".

The interesting thing though is the Russian public know full well the regime has been lying about what happened to the Moskva. The account the Kremlin gave was so ridiculous and far fetched that that even their own people knew it was BS.

Maybe this is the special operation they are really referring to in Ukraine. The ultimate grift where they steal every penny available to their entire army. It would be fitting for a country run by crooks.

Today also marked the first confirmed use of a Russian strategic bomber directly over Ukraine. These are the ones who engage in "carpet bombing" style attacks like this one shown below on Mariupol.

Apart from the younger generation, I wouldnt be surprised if there is a fair degree of indifference given their govts handling of the Kursk disaster 22 years ago.

What is? If you are referring to the SAR image, that's not fire, just the false colour palette chosen to render a non optical wavelength image.

What would the Ukrainian's expectations have been I wonder when they fire the couple of Neptunes at the Moskva?

If they've never been used in combat before, then they'd be an unknown quantity. Would they have been happy with a hit and the Moskva retreating further out to sea. Or would they have expected to do enough damage to send it back to Sevastopol. It must have been a lucky hit to cause further detonations and sink it.

For more weirdness, I read last night an official Turkish denial that any of their ships were involved or rescued anyone.