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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo



    So Broken you bizarrely ask

    "What natural resources have we off shore and on shore?"

    Not this s**te again?

    See above for just some of the many replies from myself and others already posted refuting your apparent campaign of disinformation on this topic already.

    We have offshore reserves of natural gas, both tapped and untapped which are essential for providing a safe, secure and reliable source of natural gas needed for the period of transition to renewable energy generation and beyond



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    To reduce the independence of imported coal and lessen the load on our grid. I personally think Turf is much greener than the GP (and their supporters) say it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Lol.

    Are you saying you don't know that Turf was used to generate electricity in Ireland for many years? From the ESB archives.

    Or indeed that Mr Ryan himself is on record saying that

    Minister for Climate and the Environment Eamon Ryan has not ruled out the possibility of two closed power stations in the midlands playing a role in potential emergency electricity-supply measures over the coming years.

    Surely you know all this already?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    I am talking about the policy of trying to switch people away from Turf into coal. Lots of post here saying that coal is much better than Turf. You do know the GP are trying to stop Turf burning don't you ? Do you not understand the difference between "not ruled out" and actually supporting it now ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Have a look around, not one country is saying it is greener plus ruining the bogs means we can't use them to take CO2 out of the air. Also from a generation point of view they are not efficient as other sources.

    The fact turf was discussed earlier on the thread and the output from the plants would have been a hint if I wasn't aware that turf was used to generate power. 🤦‍♂️

    But please continue .....it's another excellent example of you unaware of what has been discussed on the thread



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    No I'm with you on criticising the greens policy on turf

    I think you might have quoted the wrong comment. I was replying to brokens apparent lack of knowledge about turf btw



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    😂

    As usual adding nothing to the conversation and just attacking posters

    Barryroe is the only one which is not currently been used. Which as discussed many times has a very dodgy company around it with no actual drilling company involved. Also would not be available till 2026 at best

    The person posted

    We need to use the natural resources that are available off-shore and on-shore until such time we have a reliable and fail-safe renewal energy infrastructure in place.

    So it is a fairly basic question about what resources we are supposed to use? we are already using the ones we have. Our best resource available it renewable.

    Not sure why we have to go back over a discussion already had on all of these topics in detail. The poster mention off-shore and on-shore so it was reasonable to ask what resources they are referring to

    But please carry on....



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    Let me first say I make mistakes, and unlike some I am happy to be corrected with facts and logic.

    Frustrated with the lack of science understanding and thoroughness GP (and their supporters), and their habit of just repeating figures without thinking about them or questioning them, as above, I thought I would make a post detailing my concerns with the claims that coal is "cleaner/greener" than turf.

    Turf round here is cut by hand by uncle Jimmy and no real CO2 is produced in the process (I guess Jimmy will breath out a bit more CO2 with the work). The "wound" in the bog tends to heal (not regenerate) in a year or two, so further leaching of CO2 from the cut stops soon after it is harvested. Looking and walking on the old cuts here, the bog seems alive and well, just a bit lower than before. I understand that if the bog was destroyed then its carbon sink abilities would go, but all seems well here with the bogs that are cut by hand. The turf is burnt locally so transport adds little to the carbon footprint.

    When coal is mined seams of coal are exposed and at that point the oxidation process starts (there is no healing process), coal mining companies have to install huge ventilation systems to pipe the CO2 and methane (much worse than CO2) into the atmosphere, open pit mines just vent directly into the air until they are sealed. These gas emissions continue long after the commercial grade coal has been extracted, old underground mines continue to emit CO2 and methane for many many decades after they are closed. (read: https://www.carbonbrief.org/coal-mines-emit-more-methane-than-oil-and-gas-sector-study-finds)

    As a side note read about how bad Columbian mines are for the environment and human rights here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerrej%C3%B3n . (uncle Jimmy's fine and is enjoying a pint after a long days work). I hate siting the Guardian as its a horrible rag but as its a GP favourite: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/oct/25/blood-coal-irelands-dirty-secret

    The mining process consumes energy, and thus produces CO2 from burning fuel, some coal but also diesel but sometimes methane from the mine itself. (Reference: https://www.aprenergy.com/fast-power/mining) 

    The coal is then transported to docks by rail or conveyer, this produces CO2.

    The coal is then shipped to Ireland (from Columbia that's over 6600km each way), and this shipping produces about 5g per tonne of coal per KM. What is worse than this is these cargo vessels burn high sulphur marine diesel which also is high in NOx, and SO2.

    The coal is then transported from the docks to the consumer by road and rail, which as we know produces CO2.

    Just comparing the combustion products of Turf Vs Coal, is obviously stupid as is not questioning the figures presented by the GP when all of the above sources of additional CO2/NOx and SO2 are not addressed. Just because most of these emissions happen in a foreign country don't excuse the absence of them in the figures, children are children no matter where they live! 

    Looking back in this thread several posters are suggesting coal is better than turf - REALLY ? Trying to put an actual figure on how bad coal is would be a long process, but its certainly much, much worse than presented, who knows until someone who is really concerned by actual facts, and not just the sensationalist headline "Turf is worse than coal", takes on the process of actually understanding the facts by conducting a proper analysis. 



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Well I know that. Apparently you did not. And I quote from your comment above

    @brokenangel Turf to generate power?

    And previous

    @brokenangel   another excellent example of you unaware of what has been discussed on the thread

    And the irony of you attempting to claim others of being "unaware" of what's being discussed on the thread 🙄

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    If you are talking about generating electricity turf is one of the least efficient. To cut turf for generation generates lots of CO2 before it even gets to the plant.

    I am not saying to bring in coal either.

    Ireland has an abundance of options for sustainable energy generation. Solar and wind is already in place. Biomethane as confirmed by bord gais has huge potential. Hydro I don't know enough about. Wave according to Marine institute should be able to provide in Ireland.

    These are all experts saying what options we have.

    Turf is not sustainable. The best use for the bog is to take Co2 out of the air.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    This is magic thinking from the greens and their acolytes, Wind and solar are considered by them as "free" because they think there is an "inexhaustible" abundant supply of sunshine and breezes. Engineers who build and manage the power grid, as well as economists and ordinary people, know that solar energy and wind generated electricity are, for many reasons, extremely expensive.  One of several reasons is that the land necessary to site these things is far from inexhaustible. It is scarce, and it most definitely is not free, nor is servicing it.

    The typical capacity factor over the course of a year for onshore wind turbines in Ireland is between ~20 to 30%, that means a standby backup generation infrastructure has to be maintained to manage the random nature of the generation output from this sources, that is not free either. This is from Hornsea offshore in the UK.


    Battery or pumped storage is not free either, you have to put more energy in than you get in return from these schemes.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    I never said either are free, I know how much solar cost me and it will take 10 years to pay them off, maybe 7-8 if FiT gets approved finally.

    I again refer back to the link I share earlier which says wind is far cheaper than nuclear before we even head down that direction. The same article mentioned gas was cheaper but that was for the US which has it own supply plus it was before the Ukraine war

    As I said many times, sustainable is more than wind & power. I have provided information from the expert on this thread already about wave and biomethane to name two.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Which as discussed many times has a very dodgy company around it

    The only one to make any unsubstantiated allegations about the company in charge of the Barryroe oil and gas field supposedly being "dodgy" was you.

    Also would not be available till 2026 at best

    And again what's with the misinformation - Barryroe is on record as having a 1-2 year window to being on line. So if Mr Ryan takes his finger out that could be as early as 2023-2024 and Not "2026" as you alone claim. That has already been detailed many times in this thread.

    You asked in your previous comment

    What natural resources have we off shore and on shore?

    Not which ones are "not currently " in use as you claimed here

    Barryroe is the only one which is not currently been used

    And again you are wrong. There are other untapped reserves in addition to Barryroe which have already been detailed and which once again you've ignored and pretend either don't exist

    This one was included in the posts quoted above. And still you deny and deflect and post rubbish about the Barryroe gas field you didn't even knew existed just a few weeks ago

    And it's the constant posting of rubbish like that is what posters are calling you out on

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Broken. The only carry is your own

    If you post something that does not stand up to scrutiny - you can be fairly sure that's going to be called out here by other posters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    We used to have an abundance of resources off shore until our government handed them all away. Look how the rights to probably the greatest fishing grounds in Europe were just gave away too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If you take a look around then you will see that when it comes to CO2 emissions the major polluters could care less. Do you seriously believe that they will change their ways because a bunch of cult like looney`s with 3% electoral support wish to wreck their countries economy and make beggars of their population ?

    The last two turf burning plants recently shut down. Shannonbridge and Lanesboro, had the same capacity as the largest tidal plant in Europe, (and the second largest in the world), that a wet week ago was your answer to our energy crisis.

    But please continue........it`s just another example of you not having a clue.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    I again refer back to the link I share earlier which says wind is far cheaper than nuclear before we even head down that direction.

    But nuclear is going to generate power regardless of the weather conditions. Seriously, how is that point lost on you and the wider green movement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Get the notion the Greens want us to accept the gaps, today you have electricity ,maybe tomorrow you don't,



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    So what does biomethane do? solar still works even when cloudy. Wave technology etc

    I AGAIN say sustainable is a mix, not just wind.

    The US have decided to go that direction as the cost per kWh for nuclear plus all the other risks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    So what does biomethane do?

    What sort of question is that? We could do with more anaerobic digesters, that I'll agree with.

    solar still works even when cloudy.

    It's useless when it's dark - and it gets dark really early in Nov-Dec-Jan when we require more power.

    Wave technology etc

    Practically non-existent.

    I AGAIN say sustainable is a mix, not just wind.

    Wind is pretty much the only horse being backed in Ireland and it's not reliable.

    The US have decided to go that direction as the cost per kWh for nuclear plus all the other risks.

    The US have a bumbling president in charge who is firing money (Democrats are fond of this) at vanity projects. Let them at it, If they stumble across something useful we can adopt it - at least it's not Irish taxes being squandered.

    *** You also totally dodged the Nuclear is reliable angle - not surprising.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    You said nuclear worked regardless of weather, biomethane does the same

    As I posted both Bord Gais and Marine institute have discussed the relevant technologies and how ireland is perfect

    Solar is having a huge push.

    We have a hydro station for many years.

    Someone mentioned here hydro and we have a study with all the spots in ireland but I did question what output these give

    So no wind is not the only renewable



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo



    So no wind is not the only renewable

    In theory no - However and as pointed out many times by many posters wind generation is the principle form of renewable wind energy in Ireland atm and will be for the foreseeable future

    In the meantime, it is recognised by the EU and others than a safe secure and reliable form of non renewable energy is required for the period of transition and beyond.

    The likes of wave generation, biomethane are simply something we might get to some day but by the looks of the technology on the ground today - that day is far far far away



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    We don’t have wave power though 😂😂😂😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The renewables we have are unreliable and need fossil fuel backup, and will need that backup for many years to come. In Ireland that backup is primarily from natural gas. In 2020 52% of our electricity was produced from natural gas. There is now a natural gas shortage due to a war, and the supply we are currently receiving has been pointed out as not secure by our own regulator as well as not being compliant with E.U. directives.

    Yet here you are defending the green party lunacy of attempting to ban LNG, ignoring possible natural gas sources of our own while throwing out your own estimates of times needed to deliver either, while blathering on about alternatives with no time-frames on delivery or how much of that 52% they would replace.

    The Marine Institute and tidal is a nothing as has been more than comprehensively explain to you and you still ignore. There is no untapped possibility for large scale hydro closing that gap, and as far as Bord Gais is concerned, best future case guess from SEAI is that bio-gas would only provide 3% of 2019 natural gas levels.

    Any chance of you at least attempting to deal with the realities rather than attempting to lead the discussion down cul de sacs to disguise that the Irish greens are nothing more than clueless ideologists ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    No idea why you continue to go back over the same topic which was exhaustively discussed. Nothing has changed on the Kerry LNG and it’s still has no planning and rightly so

    Unless the planning has been granted it pointless bringing it into the conversation as it will never exist



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