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30 year old arts graduate struggling to get by

245

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,785 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Opinions on that subject vary wildly. Some people are given houses for free because they can't/won't afford to rent at market rate, or get a mortgage. Others work themselves to the bone to put a roof over their heads. And then there's you OP...the single person not earning enough to live in the city and have your own space. I empathise with you, but you do have options.

    You can leave Dublin, or Ireland completely and start afresh elsewhere. You would need to pick somewhere your education and experience would be advantageous to you. The next option you should consider is to retrain. Similar to another poster on here, I went to college as a mature student at 34, starting off doing a year to get to level 5 and then onto an IT for 3 more years to get my Level 7. I could have skipped the first year though, but I left school after my Jnr cert and my math skills were very basic. I chose Engineering for the challenge and because I reckoned there would always be a need for them.

    You say your annual pay is 30k. I walked into a job earning more than that right after graduating and moved to another role where I have nearly doubled that income. It's about choosing what's right for you and unfortunately, an arts degree is generally not worth much unless you go into teaching, or you get lucky. If you can't earn what you need to at least have your own place (rented or mortgaged) then you need to change path, be it county, country or education. Don't feel like you've failed. Still a lot of time left in the game for you. Best of luck with your future.

    Stay Free



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Couldn't really blame them for that advice though, for most people it's decent advice. A 3 year degree starting at 17/18 is a good idea. Now though with TY becoming mandatory and all 4-year degrees, if someone is remotely handy they're mad to not start working at 16 and get their own van for when they're 17.

    I have to say though, sometimes I think I went to the best publicly-funded school in the entire world when I hear how other schools are run. Then I think back to when I was in school and remember just how many times lads claimed they had no idea about stuff that was spoken about loads. Mentioned physics in 3rd year and some lads were like "Wha's tha?", despite the fact we'd just had a class used by the Biology, Chemistry and Physics teachers pitching them to us. Same when new subjects were introduced, I was led to believe that the people it affected weren't informed at all even though I'd heard about it in classes for a year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    One idea I have is getting my drivers license, then getting a HGV licence. Those drivers are making 45k+ straight away. And I was thinking of getting warehouse general work in the meantime for experience in the industry.

    Considering in school they pretty much told us manual work was for people unable to go to college it seems like a backwards step, but as I have no interest in IT maybe the best option to get a property.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,943 ✭✭✭YellowLead


    I think part of your issue is worrying too much about what other people think. Who are these people that look down on renters? I’ve never encountered them - not in this day and age where it’s well documented how difficult it is. I’m 37 and have friends still renting including myself, you’re only 30 - people wouldn’t expect you to have a house already - I don’t get the pressure and ignore your siblings.

    When I was your age I was earning 30k too, I now earn 70. Not enough for me to buy a house alone but hopefully I can keep growing that.

    I also did an arts degree because I loved literature etc but it doesn’t pay the bills so I ended up going down a marketing /project management sort of route. It doesn’t have to be tech if you’ve no interest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    Its mainly the media. You don't see renters on prime time. Its always geared around the need to buy.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The push in Ireland over The last 20/30 years has been to make the population believe that university was the only way.

    terrible advise. Skills and trades will never disappear, those are some of the richest people in the country. I know plenty of people that left school even before the inter cert, most just after (I'm that old!) that went on to own their own businesses.

    It's about you OP, never mind school or third level, it's real life now. Go see the world, do plenty of different things, enjoy it while you do it, and find what you love.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,153 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    That's the second or third time you have alluded to manual work/non-university type work about being somehow beneath you. I take back what I said about you being too hard on yourself. It seems you think you are better than these jobs because you did arts. You say not everyone can work in IT. Well, technical and manual jobs can pay well because many DO think it is somehow "beneath" them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,272 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    They don't have to be mutually exclusive. There is nothing stopping someone from coming out of university at 21 or 22 and then starting a trade. People will come out at that age and do Accounting or Solicitor apprenticeships so why not carpenter? There is a value in the university experience too so I wouldn't rule it out purely on a financial basis.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do you run out to buy tampons when they're advertised?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,422 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Plumber is a great well paid job and their is huge demand. And it won't be automated soon until we have some kind of uniform plumbing in houses.



  • Registered Users Posts: 965 ✭✭✭SnuggyBear


    So you just want a house so people don't look at you a certain way? Man **** that you are getting to the age where you won't care what people think of you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    An arts degree is only useful if you intend to further your education for at least another 2 years post grad, be it teaching or mastering in one of your modules.

    Tbh you come across as fairly entitled. Do you seriously think you can jump into a job at high pay?

    It is what it is. Yes, not being able to buy a home is crap, but you've made a path now. An arts degree. You either build on that, or restart. You've turned down a public service job, which might have been hasty imo. Once you've a foot in the door you should be then building on your education and experience. Yes, the pay will be small, but security is key to buying any home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    Everyone in Ireland has to get a house, we are a home owners society. Its a right of passage into adulthood that my generation are unable to achieve



  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    I was of the idea that you had to buy a home in your 20s because my siblings and parents did. Granted my folks did in the 80s and siblings in the boom. But I expected a salary of 30k to buy a 1 bed apartment in citywest or Newbridge because thats what my sisters did.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    When you're 16 and see a couple of lads left going out and getting coked up at the weekend it's a bit annoying. When you're 18 starting college and the lads out working start getting their cars on the road. I wouldn't fancy finishing college (likely with debt the way things are going) then committing to 4 years training for yet another thing.

    There's definitely money in the trades. Part of that is that we've been discouraged or banned from doing fairly simple manual tasks around the house and the state has tried to make some trades "exclusive", which only helps the people in it take the piss a bit more.

    But if someone has the time/money/family/background allowing the freedom to finish school, then college and then start from scratch then more power to them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,422 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    I think this thread is a wind up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    How? Its hard to get high paying jobs outside niche areas. Rents are so high Im stuck house sharing (as are everyone I know my age) and Irish society views home ownership as something you have to do



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's good/bad because it's a bit less "regulated" than electricians. Last place I lived in the housemate broke the toilet, got a handyman in to put in a replacement. He was paid fairly well for it, still likely half what a plumber would put through the books. Even a step "down" from that, guy called to my parents' house last year, had just cleared the gutters for a neighbour, asked if they wanted theirs done. Long story short, after less than an hour on the street he drove off €90 up, doubt his expenses (wear and tear on ladder and gloves) were too high. 😅



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,272 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,272 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I wouldn't fancy finishing college (likely with debt the way things are going) then committing to 4 years training for yet another thing.

    Sure you'll be training in whatever role you go into anyway. Whether you are aware of it or not. If you go into something like accountancy, as I mentioned, it will be an explicit training program. So why not a carpenter.

    You can go and do your trade at 16. I have friends who did that even though it wasn't that usual when I was that age, and is probably less usual now, but if I was a parent I'd want the child to finish their Leaving. So it is only an extension then to continue that to third level.

    Actually, now that I think of it, a fella I know went to third level, studied something related to computing, then went and worked on the building for the mid 2000's until the bust came. He went back doing something in IT. But he made a packet on the building. I'm not sure whether he served his time or not though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    I want no hand outs, my political instincts are conservative (hate long term welfare, dislike how having a child is seen as a life choice) I just want a normal standard of living with a basic car, a secure home and enough disposable income to have a pint on a Saturday night. Why does that seem out of my reach?

    Because conservatives keep voting for right-wing conservative parties? FFG have been in power for the past 100 years, but in the last 20 have taken a big push to the neo-liberal right. They don't even favour "small" landlords any more, they're literally preventing people from building and buying houses and apartments, so instead they can be bought by REITs and vulture funds. They are essentially giving away public land to developers to build private houses and social housing that they will then lease back to the state. Win-win for developers and vultures...

    But conservatives keep voting for them, because... well, who knows?

    Canada's a good option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,272 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    It can also lead to some great opportunities in the world of adult entertainment videos.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Absolutely! I'm in a career for the last 23 years and am currently studying at third level, for something different. I just don't believe in putting one above the other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Yeah, no, we don't. That's just you. And maybe your social circle.

    You said you were working for facebook? Why do you need to live in Dublin? Work remotely from somewhere far cheaper to rent from.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    I am from a working class family in Donegal and did an Arts degree in Trinity as I did not have good career guidance at my DEIS school. I got a first in 2012 but found it hard to get a decent non-call center job. I did an IT postgrad after that and am now in a well paying tech job by comparison.

    I am 32 and likely will be able to afford to buy a house in Dublin in the next few years but not sure I see my long term future here as

    Basically, get an IT qualification and think about moving outside Dublin, plenty of cheap houses outside the Pale



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Training yeah but in Dublin in IT after a year or 18 months 50k is very doable and you're on the way. I'm sure it's not as bad as it was but an awful lot of people were left hanging in the crash because of being let go and a lot left with years remaining. It's not like a college course where you sign up and the course is laid out, lots can and from what I've seen does go wrong. Maybe the people I know didn't have a common experience but once work dried up the government was cutting the training courses as well so even for people who had family for getting the hours it took well over 5 years to get the papers sorted.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not at all. It's an attitude certain people have. Unfortunately for you OP, you seem to buy into it. Other people just do what they want.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    If you have management experience, you can get into the civil service or local authorities at Assistant Principal/Senior Executive Officer level. Starting pay €70k. Have a look at the threads on here, plenty of people getting appointed with similar levels of experience to you. Even less experience needed for HEO roles, and they start at €50k. Won't get you a house straight away. Will get you a decent place to rent while you save a deposit.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Op has two threads going at the same time doing the same whinging, this is a wind up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,785 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    I am your generation, only a few years your senior. Sure, things are hard now, but they were also VERY hard in 2007 when myself and my Wife bought our home in Dublin. It was done out of necessity; our circumstances required it and pouring cash into renting somewhere for around the same cost of servicing a mortgage was something we couldn't stomach.

    To make it work, I had to change jobs and I worked my a55 off to bring my earnings up to what was needed on the payslip. Sometimes we need to light a fire under ourselves to do what we need to get what we want. I honestly couldn't have afforded to let an excuse like "unable to achieve" enter my mind. I reached the goal in less than a year.

    You'd be amazed at what you can achieve if you lose the defeatist attitude. Focus on what you can change, because the cr@p you can't change is what keeps you down.

    Stay Free



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tbh, most salaries won't buy houses in Dublin unless you have a partner or have done some great saving. And I'm saying this as somebody in software, I moved to another county and was able to do so. I could have bought something pretty bad in Dublin at best.


    The huge problem with your posts are you seem to denigrate other professions because you always looked down on them since you were younger. Most professions with higher pay do require specialised skills. This includes the likes of manual labour. (Welding just comes to mind as an example)


    For the record, being paid a decent amount is great but you're gonna discover parts of life simply aren't easier as you grow older or won't work out as expected. In this case, it's entirely within your control to change things up if you're willing to put in the graft.



  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    When I earn 28,500 and mortgage lending rules are 3.5 times earnings, and I pay 700 to rent a room, then I cannot achieve a home



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭bertiebomber


    I know a plumber he has 3 houses now never went to college his brother is an electrician and has a commercial property and two houses all did apprentices no college. Unless you have a definate path college is just a few years extra on the piss and living off parents.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,272 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    That's not really an option though for the OP to be fair.


    They went to UCD.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭NSAman


    I’m not of your generation, but you certainly sound like “I did “x” and expect to get “y” “,, life doesn’t work like that. I did an arts degree, post grad, a second degree, masters at night, all the time working full time. I didn’t buy my first house till I was in my thirties.

    lost money , long story, worked hard, worked abroad many times, trained in jobs, did night classes. Second house was bought in my 40s. Moved abroad again. Working all the time and learning all the time.

    met someone again and settled down again.

    life is never handed to anyone simply because you got a degree. You have to use that degree as a stepping stone.

    now I am comfortable, but not because of a degree, simply because experience that I got along the way has paid dividends, lots of hard work, luck and quite a bit of taking chances.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,526 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    Why is this in current affairs, Is self entitled whinging news now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,877 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Lots of people dont like IT so theres no point in retraining in something you have no interest in.

    if you have an interest in politics, did you ever consider a job with a lobby organisation? Lobbyists seem to earn good salaries and need qualifications similar to yours but you might also need to have a bit of knowledge or a particular interest in, eg a topic close to your heart or your own situation that your peers are also affected by.

    For instance, you are upset that you cant buy a home on your single salary. Maybe some group should be lobbying the government to change the rules about building smaller sized apartments so that single people can afford to buy rather than the current rules which puts them out of reach for so many.

    Maybe theres a lobby group for something you are passionate about that would pay well.

    https://www.payscale.com

    https://www.lobbying.ie



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Honestly, I've lost any sympathy for you now OP. You sound very entitled.

    if your entire life is based around buying a house, probably in South county Dublin near your parents, then off you go and spend your life doing that.

    Other people have an actual life, maybe look into that....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    A friend started in one of those roles about 6-7 years ago. They are now head of comms for a substantial, high profile public body, one that is in the news pretty much every week. They are at AP level, €65k-€90k.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What about academia? You mentioned earlier about enjoying books/reading. If I’m honest you need to work on your attitude a tad OP. Your posts come across a little negative, and employers will spot that a mile away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    I know people in academica. They earn less than me. It wont buy a house on one income. To be honest if it wasn't for the attitude towards renting in Ireland Id be content as is. My salary doesn't deny me of anything, expect home ownership which in Irish society is paramount, I feel like Im totally looked down on for not owning



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just put on your tinder profile that you own your home.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Actually, reading this, I take back the academia suggestion. Good luck with the career/wind-up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 242 ✭✭berocca2016


    I’m a bit confused, I took on two grads last year at 35k each (I checked this is the going rate). If you can’t seem to breach 30k you must be marketing yourself wrong…

    would You go to a careers coach ?



  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The bang of troll off this is something else.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    What industry? Marketing with 5 years experience is under 30k unless you will do cold sales



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,938 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I echo the positive sentiments regarding the OP and wish all the best.

    To be honest my immediate reaction to the title of the thread was this must be a piss take or something.

    It is a salutary warning though - don't do nonsense degrees if standard of living is a priority for you. If the area is your passion, something you love, and you want that degree by all means but be sure you understand the impact that can have on your earning power and accept that. Do your research.

    There are too many people taking the type of degrees that are too numerous these days that will just land them in trouble really later on.

    4 years in College is not a frat party although many treat it that way. It will probably determine how you have to live your life afterward, what you can and can't do, your prospects.

    It's a serious choice.

    My strong advice OP - go back, get a degree in finance or computing or pharma etc - some area in real demand paying good money - see what appeals to you. You have plenty of time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭johnboy92


    The problem with that is I dont have plenty of time. the cut off point for a mortgage is 40. And 5 years in college again means living at home like a child in to my mid 30s. So best case scenario I buy at 40 and can start living then?

    Thanks to the housing market emigration seems the only option



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,943 ✭✭✭YellowLead


    If the only thing that bothers you is other people’s attitudes and not actually the fact you don’t own your own home....maybe shift your attitude to not caring what other people think? You’re only 30...too young to be bitter.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You seem to be good at creative fiction. Maybe focus on that?



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